Highspeed rail is B$it

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you break the law, you get in trouble. If a popular vote creates a law (many states allow ballot measures) ... or if your peers elect a legislator who then passes a law ... and you don't follow that law ... it's a crime.

This goes both ways: the rich helped make the Vietnam war happen, that war instituted a draft, and perfectly peaceful, law-abiding citizens who wanted nothing to do without colonial expansion were forced to fight or go to jail.

It's 100% shitty ... but again, people are going to be shitty sometimes. All (American-style) democracy does is ensure that, despite that shittiness, we don't start killing each other over it every fifty years or so.

And despite recognizing it's shitty for democratic socialists to seize the means of production, you're still all for it?

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It absolutely ensures it: just look at history. We've had one real civil war (plus some minor shit at the start) in 200+ years of history.

Americans killed 1 million iraqi's because of a lie.

Americans made osama bin laden because of this lie.

Venezuela collapsed, because of this lie.

The crack epidemic exists, because of this lie.

America has the highest incarceration rate, the lowest education standards, and a growing wage gap that is comparable only to INDIA for Christ sakes.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What other, non-modern (ie. non-American-style) democracy has that kind of track record? Not Russia, not China, not Brazil, not ...

Canada. #1 in Quality of Life. #1 in Best Countries Overall. ...
Denmark. #2 in Quality of Life. #12 in Best Countries Overall. ...
Sweden. #3 in Quality of Life. ...
Norway. #4 in Quality of Life. ...
Switzerland. #5 in Quality of Life. ...
Australia. #6 in Quality of Life. ...
Netherlands. #7 in Quality of Life. ...
Finland. #8 in Quality of Life.

..
..

..

...

....
......

.....

,......

.... America.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...uality-of-life

Thanks western global consumerism:

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AGAIN DEMOCRACY DID NOT CAUSE THIS! CONSUMERISM & WESTERN MILITARIST GLOBALISM DID

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AGAIN DEMOCRACY DID NOT CAUSE THIS! CONSUMERISM & WESTERN MILITARIST GLOBALISM DID

You're right ... but whoever is going to fix it has two options: vote newer/better laws in (or newer/better representatives who create such laws) ... or stage a coup, take over, and use their newfound dictatorship power to fix it.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And despite recognizing it's shitty for democratic socialists to seize the means of production, you're still all for it?

I recognized no such thing. If I implied anything in that post, it was that the Vietnam War draft sucked.

But look, it's not about extremes. Everyone (sane) agrees that public roads are a good thing. So are public firefighters, public police, teachers, emergency rooms, etc.

Now, you can debate details, like whether those public police departments should be buying and using military goods ... but no one (sane) is saying we should eliminate all police and just let the purge begin ... not even BLM.

At the same time, no one sane would say the government should take over everything. There's a wealth of evidence showing that the government is not as good as the private sector at planning, and when it tries you wind up with the USSR and shortages on basic goods.

A healthy society has some private institutions, and some public ones ... but it has both kept in check by a well-balanced system of incentives that ensure both ultimately serve society's interest.

Our problem here in America is that those balancing systems have become unbalanced, and now our institutions often don't serve anyone except shareholders.

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At the same time, no one sane would say the government should take over everything. There's a wealth of evidence showing that the government is not as good as the private sector at planning, and when it tries you wind up with the USSR and shortages on basic goods.

Now you are saying democratic socialists are not sane. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right ... but whoever is going to fix it has two options: vote newer/better laws in (or newer/better representatives who create such laws) ... or stage a coup, take over, and use their newfound dictatorship power to fix it.

I vote stage a coup.

[magnetaress]

The people in power in the United States doing this and benefitting from massive blood shed on a massive scale will not stop doing what they are doing without massive bloodshed. And horrific personal loss. The powerful in this country only care for themselves and how efficiently they can dominate the rest of you and crush your psyches into fearful obedient oblivion.

[Jibartik]

BP oil 7 trillion in profits this year.

7 trillion.

In profit.

We're getting ass raped.

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BP oil 7 trillion in profits this year.

7 trillion.

In profit.

We're getting ass raped.

Looks like it's monkeypox for you then, jib. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now you are saying democratic socialists are not sane. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No: again you're jumping to extremes.

Let's say total communism is a 0 and total capitalism is a 10. Communist Russia wasn't even a 0, Cuba isn't even a 0, etc. Even the most socialist countries on the planet have capitalist elements, so they'd be maybe a 2 or something.

Same thing on the other end: if America was a 10 we'd have no public roads, no police force, a fire department that shows up when your house is on fire and says "pay us half the value or you lose the whole house" (this was a thing fire departments used to do BTW), etc.

So, let's say America is maybe a 7.5 right now. The democratic socialists maybe want to take us down to like a 6.3: nothing crazy there. But anyone who wants to take us to a 0 or a 10 is crazy: it's just not happening.