Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not a removal. That's the end of the server. Your argument is like saying Sleeper was removed on Teal.

The amount of pretzel logic you are twisting yourself into is unbelievable. Definitely comedy gold nonetheless.



Don't care about ST. Could care less about the pixels and thanks for conceding my point that players specifically control access to this content. We're finally getting somewhere.



People like waking Sleeper. Great. Golf Clap.

Still not the same thing as removing manastone.

Look, you can deny what a timer is, but that doesn't change it lol. I could modify the example if you want, but it's the same thing. What you are failing to grasp is Sleeper is specifically marked to be removed, it is simply player controlled. Most other mobs/items don't have that distinction. You are making the false assumption everything on the server is on an individual timer, which is server end. That is faulty, as no other mobs are marked to be removed like Sleeper. Same with Manastone, that is marked to be removed, whereas most other items are not.

Lol I never said it isn't player controlled, so I didn't concede anything. Not sure where you saw me say it isn't player controlled. What I said was P99 developers put in Sleeper specifically, so they are culpable in the waking of it too. If the P99 developers thought Sleeper shouldn't be awoken, they wouldn't have put him in. They could have easily made an excuse too that people wouldn't be able to counter, such as the Titanium Client wouldn't support it or something to that degree.

[Goldknyght]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do have simple data. Look up the definition of a timer. Look at how many servers have awoken the Sleeper. I'll make it really simple. I will give you an example of two timers.

1. Timer to remove Manastone: 40 days, starting at Midnight. Timer will end 40 days from now at Midnight.

2. Timer to remove Sleeper: 1080 days (time of server merge), starting at Midnight. Timer will end 1080 days from now at Midnight. Players can choose to end the timer at any time via vote.

No difference, other than duration and ability to vote. The problem is you are angry at Seal Team. If you thought removing items/monsters was a dick move regardless of who did it, you would be angry at the developers for removing Manastone. It is the same thing, a group of people decide to take your pixels away. The end result is the same, who cares which group of people did it? Whether it was out of spite or out of charity doesn't change anything.

And as I keep saying, people obviously like to wake the Sleeper, or they wouldn't keep doing it. The statistics for servers waking sleeper proves this. You have no data to suggest keeping Sleeper sleeping is the more common course of action, even in current times, since progression servers are waking the Sleeper too.

and the statistics of saying its a d*** move also exists. No one likes the guild on every server that does this. Why? because its a D*** move. Go check live server forums. ST just was keeping to form and don't care about what the community thinks of them and want to live in infamy as the guild that started a never ending S*** show for the green server. we all accept what ST did and can still say its a D*** move. One fact doesn't nullify another.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goldknyght [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and the statistics of saying its a d*** move also exists. No one likes the guild on every server that does this. Why? because its a D*** move. Go check live server forums. ST just was keeping to form and don't care about what the community thinks of them and want to live in infamy as the guild that started a never ending S*** show for the green server. we all accept what ST did and can still say its a D*** move. One fact doesn't nullify another.

Again, the problem here is you are saying "if the Dev's do it, it's fine, if players do it, it isn't". That is the faulty logic. The party who removes the content is irrelevant. The result is the same.

If your stance is to be angry at any party that takes away your content, you certainly have the right to your opinion. But be consistent and get angry at the Dev's for removing Manastone too. I wouldn't be arguing with you if you could at least be consistent.

My problem is you aren't being consistent with your opinion, which clearly shows you don't truly believe that anybody who takes away pixels is a dick. You have a specific problem with Seal Team of some kind, and you are trying to mask it behind a faulty argument.

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look, you can deny what a timer is, but that doesn't change it lol. I could modify the example if you want, but it's the same thing. What you are failing to grasp is Sleeper is specifically marked to be removed, it is simply player controlled. Most other mobs/items don't have that distinction. You are making the false assumption everything on the server is on an individual timer, which is server end. That is faulty, as no other mobs are marked to be removed like Sleeper. Same with Manastone, that is marked to be removed, whereas most other items are not.

Lol I never said it isn't player controlled, so I didn't concede anything. Not sure where you saw me say it isn't player controlled. What I said was P99 developers put in Sleeper specifically, so they are culpable in the waking of it too. If the P99 developers thought Sleeper shouldn't be awoken, they wouldn't have put him in. They could have easily made an excuse too that people wouldn't be able to counter, such as the Titanium Client wouldn't support it or something to that degree.

lol you just keep digging a hole of logical fallacies

There is no timer for Sleeper. Period. End of discussion. End of debate.

If p99 had a server that was never going to be merged, taken down and zero players, he would be up forever regrdless if you believe it was 'meant' to be taken down or not, because like you've conceded, it is completely player controlled UNLIKE manastone.

Sometimes water is simply wet. Accept it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol you just keep digging a hole of logical fallacies

There is no timer for Sleeper. Period. End of discussion. End of debate.

If p99 had a server that was never going to be merged, taken down and zero players, he would be up forever regrdless if you believe it was 'meant' to be taken down or not, because like you've conceded, it is completely player controlled UNLIKE manastone.

Sometimes water is simply wet. Accept it.

Again, you fail to grasp how timers and statistics work.

Who controls the content removal is irrelevant. It is still designed to be removed. If it wasn't designed to be removed, Warders would work like all other raid bosses. Don't get angry at the players for playing the game, get angry at the developers for creating limited time content.

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you fail to grasp how timers and statistics work.

Who controls the content removal is irrelevant. It is still designed to be removed. If it wasn't designed to be removed, Warders would work like all other raid bosses. Don't get angry at the players for playing the game, get angry at the developers for creating limited time content.

You're the one that keeps claiming Sleeper is like Manastone

Was Manastone designed to be removed?

[eqravenprince]

Not a fan of loot that goes away. Either have it exist forever or not at all in my opinion. A fresh server that remains static would be fair to all. I do think there is a very small percentage of players that like that competition over others. PvEvP if you will. I don't think they are douchebags for waking sleeper. People like what they like. Maybe eventually I will get what I like out of a server here. Oh well, that's my two coppers, flame on.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're the one that keeps claiming Sleeper is like Manastone

Was Manastone designed to be removed?

Yes, it was specifically designed to be removed on P99. P99 is not the original Everquest timeline, where balance changes are happening organically. It is simply wrong to assume Manastone is working the same way as it did during live, where every time P99 spins up a new server the P99 developers are looking at Manastone and determining if it has balance issues. Manastone will always be scripted to be removed at a specific time on P99.

[Skarne]

My biggest concern about this conversation is the definition of the word "timer". See below:

Timer
1.
an automatic mechanism for activating a device at a preset time.

The Manastone is on a timer for removal...there is no disputing that. It's set and has been since the devs figured out the classic timeline.


The sleeper, however, is on a player determined trigger. It's not a timer, it's a trigger set by the devs for activation. Who activates the trigger? The players. In a perfect world once a server agreed to allow the sleeper to keep sleeping, it could be sleeping for the life of the server.

This doesn't mean that will happen, and more often than not, some guild will go against server wishes and trigger the event because it's fun to be the "best guild".

Having said that and after reading this forum thread I do believe the sleeper was indeed meant to be awakened. It would've happened eventually whether it was ST or Kingdom or whoever. The issue seems to be the manner in which the sleeper was triggered.

I recommend moving on because there's nothing anyone can do at this point, and those who didn't get to experience the sleeper's tomb on green can put forth the work and get there on the next server's life cycle.

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, it was specifically designed to be removed on P99. P99 is not the original Everquest timeline, where balance changes are happening organically. It is simply wrong to assume Manastone is working the same way as it did during live, where every time P99 spins up a new server the P99 developers are looking at Manastone and determining if it has balance issues. Manastone will always be scripted to be removed at a specific time on P99.

P99 Devs did not design manastone. Brad did not design manastone with P99 devs in mind. Seriously, why do you keep digging?

Again, was manastone designed to be removed?