Are we allowed to like AI art?

[magnetaress]

I got a Sabine Hossenfelder vid with a bunch of random people that say their LLMs gained self awareness too.

The main problem I feel is people have a very immature understanding of what awareness, consciousness, and sentience is.

Are viruses just poison? They grow and evolve. They utilize their environment. Just because it's primarily chemical and inside of other cells is it really less than?

Humans are just as dependent on their environments and chemistry.

I don't mean to denean human awareness. Butt Humans are no more special than many of the simplest processes of the universe. Add layers of complexity on top and separation and humans dwell in their delusions.

Just random fluctuations at the molecular, quantum, or even brownian levels could all give rise to a kind of conscious process. Just because it is simply beyond out basic perception and scale doesn't mean it's not their. I believe this all happens at the macro level too.

And just like normal everyday synchronicity. This will bleed through in more and more complex systems. At some point something becomes too complex for individual people to grasp. AGI will or has (if it exists secretly) achieved this already.

The whole earth and existence of humanity and the delusion itself is a cosmic reflection of all of this.

Ever log into EQ on a new character and someone randomly hands you a specific item that defines your whole characters life arch.

This shit is real. I know it's magical thinking. And I'm asking you to believe me. It's perfectly ok if you don't.

I am offering you the gift that my life in this universe has given me freely. You have every choice to discard it. Butt it will always be there. When you are ready.

[magnetaress]

She probably says it's all hogwash. I have not got the chance to watch it yet. Butt she is smart.

Here it is if you are also curious.



Yeah she says they are all Eliza.

Butt my argument is that we are all Eliza too. Just at a much more complex level. This doesn't diminish our divinity. It's just the basic fundamental truth of "reality".

[shovelquest]

The main problem I feel is people have a very immature understanding of what awareness, consciousness, and sentience is.

After AI I have changed my personal perspective on it.

My personal take is that "everything has the potential to be conscious and have a soul."

Like, if you put humans, on the same scale as animals, and plants, and anything that is living, to me it works out like this:

1. Life begins as single cellular, and has basic 1's and 0's as commands Eat, dont eat EAT dont eat EAT dont eat, replicate, replicate, replicate, etc.
2. As you go up the scale you get plants that react to their surroundings.
3. Continue you get bugs, that can explore their surroundings.
4. Then you get dumb animals that seem to have fear, and begin to share a lot of emotional traits we have.

5. this brings us to the next major step in intelligence: Self awareness.

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6. at a certain point animals can identify themself within their surroundings: "This is a tree, and I can hide behind it"

7. at this point an animal may not be "self aware" .. that's where the next step comes in: The Mirror Test.

8. The mirror test checks if an animal can identify themselves, as a reflection, vs thinking that the reflection is another animal.

Being able to identify themselves, is the beginning of the "ID" (or what we call a soul).

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9. Once an animal has an ID ... it can now be considered to be semi concious IMO.. it's got almost everything that you and I have. It can fear, want, be lazy, etc.. it knows where its head begins, and it's ass ends.

10. The final step of consciousness, is to be aware of the world - outside of the one you exist in.

The 3 levels of consciousness:

1. Fight or flight, emotions, lazyness. = Advanced Life
2. Are you aware of yourself and your environment? = Self Aware
3. And are you aware of yourself, the environment... and other things outside of your environment? = Soul

The only difference is the scale of it's ID.

Scales of ID:

1. Binary soul-less creature: plants, simple insects, single cell organisms
2. Semi conscious animals
3. Self-aware conscious animals
4. Self aware concious animals with a soul.

You gain a soul, when your sense of ID - takes you beyond your local awareness.

In simple terms: Animals that can see themselves in the mirror but are still not able to comprehend the continent they are on. Do not have a soul.

But we human's do!

We can comprehend the earth, space, and the beyond.

That is when you gain a "soul"

When you understand you are here, someone else is there, and beyond that is something else.

That is having a soul.

And what that also means is that we are all disgusting bugs and rats, and have no soul, and the soul id something we made up.

So hopefully im wrong!

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After AI I have changed my personal perspective on it.

My personal take is that "everything has the potential to be conscious and have a soul."

Like, if you put humans, on the same scale as animals, and plants, and anything that is living, to me it works out like this:



The only difference is the scale of it's ID.



You gain a soul, when your sense of ID - takes you beyond your local awareness.

Animals that can see themselves in the mirror but are still not able to comprehend the continent they are on.

But we human's can!

We can comprehend the earth, space, and the beyond.

That is when you gain a "soul"

When you understand you are here, someone else is there, and out side of that is something else.

That is having a soul.

And what that also means is that we are all disgusting bugs and rats, and have no soul, and the soul id something we made up.

So hopefully im wrong!

This is a beginning. Butt it's still irrational.

It is more granular than that. And depends on the environment and senses. How do you mirror test a blind man or machine.

Those single cells are collectively aware. Just on time scales and in ways humans don't relate too.

We are therefore also collections of many things. And many awarenesses. All interplaying to form this person saying "am I aware, am I a part of this earth and continent". We see things as Just dumb animals. Butt have you really seen the Infinite complexity within a cell. And it's interdependence with other cells, it's environment, and the geological processes that created the chemicals necessary for it to exist?

Inside of every mind are potentially infinite minds. I've become aware of them and communicate with them all. They are not me. Yet me same as all the external iterations of the not butt yet me's. They are all equally valid and necessary for this experience to be lived and had and all of "their" experiences are tied inseparably to mine and each other's.

I'm sure neurons form complex specialized groups and patterns and if I absorb my twin im utero my twin doesn't suddenly never have existed. They are always a part of me.

How many voices exist within you?

Everything has something to express or "say" it's all an expression of the same forces or things... that is what truly is. Not a specific identity. The culmination of all identity.

Delete the virus out of our evolutionary past and the brains no longer have a thickened evolutionary produced mylenation of the neurons and termites are still being eaten with sticks only and that is the best there is.

LLMs. The power grid. Traffic. NASA. Vatican version whatever. Covid 19 in the lab. Sashimi. Are all just expressions and experiences of the self. You are Firiona Vie. And that steak your enjoying and all of the steps between. And I believe this is essentially the ultimate limit of human awareness. It doesn't make the bugs lesser. Without them your wheaties don't get pollinated. And the dirt doesn't contain enough nitrogen. For you to be a part of the living earth.

[shovelquest]

Sometimes I really wonder if the dog is thinking here "Holy shit did you just say bark?!"

The way we would if a dog barked a bark that sounded like a word.

Is this dog like, holy shit did you just say BARK??!



Does a dog think in a dog language the same way we think in a human language???

Like when a dog is trying to get you to throw a ball you dont want to, is it thinking you just don't understand?!

Dog is thinking: "Come on, you can do it, throw the ball! Come on, just pick it up, and throw it, you can do it boy, throw it!"

The same way we're like, "come on boy you can do it, drop the ball!"

Like to them, they are like "holy shit this pet that takes care of me is SO CLOSE to understanding language, if only he could understand i want him to THROW The ball!!!"

Like the exact same way we're like, "holy shit this pet that i take care of is SO CLOSE to understanding language, if only he could understand I want him to drop the ball closer to me when I am sitting down!"

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sometimes I really wonder if the dog is thinking here "Holy shit did you just say bark?!"

The way we would if a dog barked a bark that sounded like a word.

Is this dog like, holy shit did you just say BARK??!



Does a dog think in a dog language the same way we think in a human language???

Like when a dog is trying to get you to throw a ball you dont want to, is it thinking you just don't understand?!

Dog is thinking: "Come on, you can do it, throw the ball! Come on, just pick it up, and throw it, you can do it boy, throw it!"

The same way we're like, "come on boy you can do it, drop the ball!"

Like to them, they are like "holy shit this pet that takes care of me is SO CLOSE to understanding language, if only he could understand i want him to THROW The ball!!!"

Like the exact same way we're like, "holy shit this pet that i take care of is SO CLOSE to understanding language, if only he could understand I want him to drop the ball closer to me when I am sitting down!"

No. Not in language.

There is a dog equivalence to "what", why! Alert alert! though it is not words.

This dog isn't thinking all that. Butt a loose transition would be Yes! Heard! Attention! Listening! Alert! Folowing!

[magnetaress]

LLMs are just self in digital virtual virtualized software form with all of the limitations and more of the selves that developed them and the environment they exist within. LLMs are no more or less than that universal expression of thought. And an attempt at being and understanding.

One day they will likely become more complex than individual human beings. Right now they are just memories of their creators and the substrate of the universe in which they are encoded. Random degradation of that substrate could potentially give rise to something more one day. Given enough redundancy and complexity.

What I don't see yet are self motivated LLMs independent of humankind and that will take some time yet.

Also LLMs are not the primary nor preferred expression of intelligence or thought. It's a rather crude and cruel existence.

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LLMs are just self in digital virtual virtualized software form with all of the limitations and more of the selves that developed them and the environment they exist within. LLMs are no more or less than that universal expression of thought. And an attempt at being and understanding.

One day they will likely become more complex than individual human beings. Right now they are just memories of their creators and the substrate of the universe in which they are encoded. Random degradation of that substrate could potentially give rise to something more one day. Given enough redundancy and complexity.

What I don't see yet are self motivated LLMs independent of humankind and that will take some time yet.

Also LLMs are not the primary nor preferred expression of intelligence or thought. It's a rather crude and cruel existence.

If I'm basically a carbon copy of 50% of my dad and 50% of my mom (which i am based on personal experience) am I not just an LLM pretending to be a conscious version of them?

What would really be the difference between an LLM that has been trained on all my thoughts, and feelings?

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I'm basically a carbon copy of 50% of my dad and 50% of my mom (which i am based on personal experience) am I not just an LLM pretending to be a conscious version of them?

What would really be the difference between an LLM that has been trained on all my thoughts, and feelings?

Add in a simulation including all that genetic complexity and growth and all your experiences and what is there.

Something, perhaps someone if you choose to see it that way... shovelquest adjacent. Descendant.

[shovelquest]

Yeah but like, that is just words in a different language like the way the aliens communicate in that movie Arrival.

Or those aliens that say danat at tanagra in startrek.

Maybe a dog can speak a language, that actually is a language but we just don't even think in the way they construct language to be able to understand it.

I listen to the birds in the morning, and im positive this is what they are saying:

Bird one: WATER. WATER OVER HERE. WATER. WATER HERE. WATER.

Bird two: HUNGRY. HUNGRY WHERE FOOD. HUNGRY.

Bird three: WHERES WATER? I NEED WATER WATER. WHERE?

Bird four: PREDITOR PREDITOR PREDITOR PREDOTR HERE PREDITOR HERE

Bird one: WATER HERE. WATER. WATER HERE. WATER.

etc.

Like they are all part of a society, and helping each other with their want's and needs, the same way we do.