stop bringing up the founding fathers in gun arguments

[patriot1776]

alarti isnt interested in facts hes a liberal

[Lexical]

There is a sudden spike in homicides in both those graphs you posted Vayloria, but they don't seem correlated to the gun bans as strongly as you insist since the spike in the DC one begins about 10 years apart and the UK graph has about a 5 year difference. What is actually very interesting about those graphs is the spikes are in the relatively same time period during which violent terrorism was on the rise and we had such terrible tragedies such as 9/11. Due to the similarities, I would place a stronger correlation between the rise of violent terrorism and the homicide rate than the handgun ban. It would also explain why there is only a spike in the number of homicides rather than a consistent rise and eventual plateau which would then lead me to side with you as it was a very clear and consistent rise. But to make a point, generally in statistics if there is a spike in the data there is an outside force that isn't being represented throughout the data. In this case, world events.

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Lexical [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they don't seem correlated to the gun bans as strongly as you insist.

Two points that I would represent from the graphs, as I mentioned to Alarti. 1) Gun restrictions or prohibitions do not result in less violent crime. 2) The conversation is around the correlation vs. causation of the increase in crime that may or may not be caused by gun restrictions.

While the gun control may or may not have led to an increase in violent crime, to posit that gun control has a marked reduction in crime is just incorrect/irresponsible and in no way can be verified with data. A blanket statement that taking away guns is a good way to reduce crime is a fallacy being used by the left. Looking at the actual data can lead to a reasonable discussion.

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Lexical [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would also explain why there is only a spike in the number of homicides rather than a consistent rise and eventual plateau which would then lead me to side with you as it was a very clear and consistent rise. But to make a point, generally in statistics if there is a spike in the data there is an outside force that isn't being represented throughout the data. In this case, world events.

If you remember in the 80's and 90's how crime in general was growing at an incredible pace and then later in the 90's is started suddenly, and almost inexplicably, dropping. This was across most of the US and is represented on the graph for DC. There are a ton of factors involved but none of those are gun restrictions. Increase in police force, increase in prison population, abortion legalization from years before, crack moving out of mainstream, etc.

Again, I get that there are literally hundreds of factors involved with crime rates on the up and down side, but the 'more guns cause more crime' component is just alarmist crap.

[patriot1776]

no proven correlation = causation

more guns = less crime

you slaves should thank those of us with firearms for keeping you safe cuz criminals dont know who has 1 behind the door

[OforOppression]

People who are afraid of their toys being taken are wing nuts like naez that need to be committed

[patriot1776]

its not a toy, and you are a dirty liberal communist fuck. go 2 north korea, we'll keep our bill of rights

[Faron]

All these statistics... Are people really trying to prove a point that people are driven to commit violent crimes based on the availability of specific weapons? Barking up the wrong tree.

[OforOppression]

Here's an idea.

You say that hammers and such kill more than guns.

Why don't you use hammers and such to protect your homes, instead, if they're a more lethal weapon???

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by OforOppression [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's an idea.

You say that hammers and such kill more than guns.

Why don't you use hammers and such to protect your homes, instead, if they're a more lethal weapon???

Moron, it's not that they are a more lethal weapon, it is that they are used to kill more people. If the logic is really 'guns kill so many people so lets get rid of them', then we should consider these items also. Your comprehension is top notch.