Alter End-Game Mechanics

[Artah]

Originally Posted by somnia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who would be in favor of altering end-game mechanics as to allow more guilds to experience end-game content?

Please vote.

I voted no because I want real competition not play hand over the dragon in a silver platter on a skewer!

Competition is so exhilerating.

[HarrisonIsStillPosting]

Right now there is zero chance for legitimate competition while camping on top of spawnpoints is legal, or training/exploiting not going punished (as is the case right now)

[Artah]

Originally Posted by HarrisonIsStillPosting [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right now there is zero chance for legitimate competition while camping on top of spawnpoints is legal, or training/exploiting not going punished (as is the case right now)

What exactly is it that TMO is doing that you can't do? It's not TMO's fault that a lot of the other smaller guilds choose to stay in their respective little guilds so that they are always divided and has no chance of becoming a real competition?

You are too stuck on your own smaller divided guilds and like the way it's running? It's all good there's no harm in staying in your comfort zone to enjoy the game. You can always do joint raids with multiple guilds.

Well what you are doing is obviously not becoming a TMO compeditor so don't be sad about it because it's really not TMO's fault seriously, it's a choice you are making.

This is like someone nailing their fingers to the table and then turning around and asking the guy next to him why he didn't try to stop him from immobilizing his fingers... I know kind of graphic but you get the idea.

[HarrisonIsStillPosting]

It's obvious you're incapable of realizing that the only reason TMO is "on top" is because there has never been a GM team with the balls to crack down on the end game and enforce the rules.

It is very clear that the GMs don't want people to poopsock. This is why they put in the variance in the first place. What they didn't expect was that you guys would be SO pathetic that you would quite literally sit on top of a spawnpoint for a week straight to circumvent the variance/rules.

The reason no one is banding together to do the same is because it's not legitimate nor is it even remotely logical to sit on a spawnpoint for days. It's pathetic.

We won't even get into the "let's let them train away, and exploit without repercussions in VP!"(the endgame currently) situation going on currently that has decimated the raid scene entirely.

You aren't talented. You aren't skilled. You just have the largest group of pathetic people under one guild tag willing to exploit, train, and poopsock longer than anyone else.

[Daldolma]

Honestly, Slave is right. The solution is so simple.

1) Remove variance.
2) Have gods/dragons shout FTE.
3) Remove play nice rules, allow training (but not KSing or ninja looting).

#3 is necessary to maintain competition. With no variance, everyone will poopsock. Which is how it worked on Live, too. But on Live, you were more or less allowed to train your competition since GMs mostly took a backseat. More importantly, the risk of being trained while engaging the god/dragon made clearing a necessity. That meant that "poop-socking" was really more like competitive clearing.

I don't see what's wrong with bringing that back. What is better about the current scenario, where you have one guild with 60+ members tracking every god/dragon for pretty much every minute of every day and jumping into the zone, bypassing most intermediate mobs, and clearing the god/dragon within 3 minutes of spawning? There's no competition, no skill, and no appreciation for the zone the mob is in. CT gets killed while the entire zone is being kited around and the competition can't do anything about it. That's so weak. Allow training and all of a sudden, if you want to do CT, you either need to start clearing (and god forbid, cooperating) or be able to handle 40 adds mid-fight. Allow training and rotations begin to make sense without being authoritatively enforced. Allow training and skill actually begins to play a role in raids. If you can handle 20 shrooms being dropped on you, congrats -- you earned Trak.

Move past this doom and gloom mindset where training is going to lead to never-ending griefing. It won't -- at least not in the raid game. It'll lead to legitimate competition and, eventually, cooperation.

[HarrisonIsStillPosting]

Training isn't competition and that's why it is illegal.

Your first two points make sense, though.

[Daldolma]

If training isn't competition, then what is? What's to stop 3 different guilds from parking on top of Trak's spawn with 40 people and just waiting? FTE isn't competition -- it's luck. One idiot gets aggro before a bunch of other idiots, through no actual ability, and somehow his guild has more right to the mob than anyone else? And don't kid yourself, these dragons/gods are trivial. Get the numbers and they go down easy, assuming there are no extenuating circumstances (trains).

I don't see how training isn't competition. It is. I'm going to drop 30 mobs on you, you're going to drop 30 mobs on me -- let's see who's standing afterward. Conversely, if you want to avoid that type of dog eat dog mentality, you can just clear the majority of the zone. Or you can choose to cooperate and/or rotate in order to avoid training each other into submission. Raiding can take a lot of different forms when training is allowed. When it's not, raiding looks like this: FTE, mob melts down, see you next week.

[HarrisonIsStillPosting]

Sitting on top of spawnpoints is the root of the problem. Make it illegal. Force people to mobilize, clear to the raid target, race.

That is what classic everquest raiding always was until PoP/flagging/instancing.

No one fucking sat on spawnpoints for DAYS. That shit is ridiculous and the variance was supposed to stop it, but like I said, the GMs didn't expect people to be that pathetic.

GMs need to put their foot down and make it illegal, ban guildleaders and officers permanently when caught breaking it, period. Problem solved. No one is going to risk a permanent ban if the GMs actually enforce their rules. They knew the rule. They chose to break it. Punish them. Stop giving out endless "one-time passes" on cheating/exploiting/training/blatant raid interferences.

The solution isn't to legalize another illegitimate tactic to fix another non-classic one. Just remove the non-classic variance, and get to the root of the problem directly. Ban poopsocking.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Harrison

exploiting in front of GMs(TMO pulling mobs through walls while Amelinda watched for hours) without punishment, some even on video, etc.

If you want to be taken seriously, at least try to use something that has traction. You're trying to make a point, but not once have you defended your claim. If you're really trying to appeal to an undecided reader, you would take the time explain yourself. Instead, you just make the same statement over and over. This is not how the reasoning process ordinarily works. If you're not sure where to start, or how your statements have been challenged, I suggest you start here:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...1&postcount=14
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...7&postcount=46
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...2&postcount=87
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=147
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=153
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=157
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=163
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=178
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=189
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=218
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=403

To those who are not in the high end scene yet: Don't let Harrison or anyone else bring you down. Many of these posters have not even tried to participate in the high end scene. There are problems, but they're not deal breaking. I think if you try, you'll find the majority of the people there are actually nice.

I think Daldolma has touched upon a good point. Many people think that unrestricted raiding leads to utter monopoly. This is a false conclusion. There are some, but not many barriers to entry for the raiding scene. From an economic stand point, the competing guilds WILL bump heads, but eventually equilibrium and cooperation will be achieved as it is the most efficient outcome for two or more similarly situated competitors.

It's all very Zen.

[Silentone]

Harrison they should just ban you for posting. doesn't even matter what you post.