OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[jaybone]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just something to consider when talking about a points system...

What do you do when 1 guild either splits into two or sticks a bunch of alts into a brand new guild...?

How will you know if that new guild is a legitimate separate entity, or just a ploy for more points?

Will you just go with your gut feeling and tell a guild that may in fact be its own thing separate from the original guild 'no, you can't raid because we think you're exploiting points'?

Just a thought. Not saying you can't do it.

I would find it extremeley sad if a guild made an alt guild so they could cheese their way into a rotation.

[goshozal]

Originally Posted by jaybone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would find it extremeley sad if a guild made an alt guild so they could cheese their way into a rotation.

I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to assume that everyone will do whatever is in their power to benefit themselves. Isn't that how we got here?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by jaybone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would find it extremeley sad if a guild made an alt guild so they could cheese their way into a rotation.

There would be an investigation if the guild council votes on it, GMs could compare the IPs/accounts for both guilds, and if found a significant number of a guild's alts were in the guild, the both guilds would have their points allocation would be set to ZERO until the alts were removed. Granted, this would take a lot of CSR work so that's why the monthly quota is stripped from BOTH guilds as a "M.A.D."-style deterrent.

The only reason I can think of to have your alts in another guild is to a) spy, or b) because you hate the guild your main is in and need to take a break from your guildmates, which is sad... but go join a non-raiding guild for that then.

[benjay]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There would be an investigation if the guild council votes on it, GMs could compare the IPs/accounts for both guilds, and if found a significant number of a guild's alts were in the guild, the both guilds would have their points allocation would be set to ZERO until the alts were removed. Granted, this would take a lot of CSR work so that's why the monthly quota is stripped from BOTH guilds as a "M.A.D."-style deterrent.

The only reason I can think of to have your alts in another guild is to a) spy, or b) because you hate the guild your main is in and need to take a break from your guildmates, which is sad... but go join a non-raiding guild for that then.

That would in no way stop TMO splitting into 3 guilds and taking the majority of the loot in any way, as there is no way you could prove that they are linked, there guild bank is probably at a point where they could split it 3 ways and sell each other loot and thats a basic example, the best way to solve this issue is to release velious as there are not enough raid encounters currently for the population of the server to contest fairly

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by benjay [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there is no way you could prove that they are linked

Pretty sure the devs could, if they had a vested interest in keeping things peaceful after such an agreement was worked out.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There would be an investigation if the guild council votes on it, GMs could compare the IPs/accounts for both guilds, and if found a significant number of a guild's alts were in the guild, the both guilds would have their points allocation would be set to ZERO until the alts were removed. Granted, this would take a lot of CSR work so that's why the monthly quota is stripped from BOTH guilds as a "M.A.D."-style deterrent.

The only reason I can think of to have your alts in another guild is to a) spy, or b) because you hate the guild your main is in and need to take a break from your guildmates, which is sad... but go join a non-raiding guild for that then.

...do you realize how much work an investigation like this entails?

And what about guilds who are legitimately splitting? How do you tell if it's a real split or just a points ploy?

These are things that need to be thought about thoroughly and a solid plan for how you would proceed if a situation like this occurs needs to be in place.

[DrKvothe]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...do you realize how much work an investigation like this entails?

And what about guilds who are legitimately splitting? How do you tell if it's a real split or just a points ploy?

These are things that need to be thought about thoroughly and a solid plan for how you would proceed if a situation like this occurs needs to be in place.

If you were willing to follow through with investigations and perma-ban violating accounts, the threat of this would keep it from happening more than once.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...do you realize how much work an investigation like this entails?

And what about guilds who are legitimately splitting? How do you tell if it's a real split or just a points ploy?

These are things that need to be thought about thoroughly and a solid plan for how you would proceed if a situation like this occurs needs to be in place.

Every guild has people that want to adhere to the rules. There isn't a guild on this server that doesn't have people like that in it and don't want to cover for the others in the guild who aren't like that.

Basically, there isn't a guild on this server that could pull that off without it getting out. TMO has already been made an example when it comes to this, 2 players nearly killed the entire guild with staff punishment. As long as the next rule breakers will be treated more severely than that (considering they'd be doing this as a guild) then I doubt you'll see the problem ever arise.

[Yinikren]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just something to consider when talking about a points system...

What do you do when 1 guild either splits into two or sticks a bunch of alts into a brand new guild...?

How will you know if that new guild is a legitimate separate entity, or just a ploy for more points?

Will you just go with your gut feeling and tell a guild that may in fact be its own thing separate from the original guild 'no, you can't raid because we think you're exploiting points'?

Just a thought. Not saying you can't do it.

I've thought of this. Any guild that splinters and wants to raid should be (A) monitored to make sure it isn't just an alt guild to get more mob attempts and (B) should exist for a predetermined amount of time determined by the server. I'm thinking 3-6 months a guild should be established before they are allowed to claim points in my system.

[Capi]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just something to consider when talking about a points system...

What do you do when 1 guild either splits into two or sticks a bunch of alts into a brand new guild...?

How will you know if that new guild is a legitimate separate entity, or just a ploy for more points?

Will you just go with your gut feeling and tell a guild that may in fact be its own thing separate from the original guild 'no, you can't raid because we think you're exploiting points'?

Just a thought. Not saying you can't do it.

I like to have some trust in humanity. But no big deal - guild that gets caught faces one hell of a penalty.