Best one sentence summation of how I feel, ever.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Illuzionz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is that a big logical leap unless you are a complete fucking retard? Ever seen a house build itself? Ever seen a painting paint itself? Ever seen a song write itself? Ever seen a book write itself? Ever seen a car build itself? Ever seen a cake bake itself?

If you need more evidence, please kill yourself.

those aren't natural things though

i've seen snow drifts and mud puddles created with no conscious input

[Illuzionz]

Doesn't matter if they aren't "natural". It provides evidence that even nature itself was created.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Illuzionz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Doesn't matter if they aren't "natural". It provides evidence that even nature itself was created.

if they aren't natural, then how does it provide evidence that nature itself was created?

makes no sense

and again -- mudpuddles are created without conscious input. sand dunes. snow drifts. rock slides. thunder storms. etc etc etc

[Illuzionz]

Originally Posted by pharmakos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if they aren't natural, then how does it provide evidence that nature itself was created?

makes no sense

and again -- mudpuddles are created without conscious input. sand dunes. snow drifts. rock slides. thunder storms. etc etc etc

Simply assumptions. The only possibility for all of those things was a conscious creation. Sand didn't exist at one point. Therefor it had to be created. Snow didn't exist at one point. It had to be created. Thunder storms weren't possible at one point. The possibility for them had to be created. Rocks didn't exist at one point. They had to be created. The computer you're typing didn't exist at one point. It had to be created. You didn't exist at one point, you had to be created.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Illuzionz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simply assumptions.

^^ that statement also applies to your belief that creation implies consciousness

like i said, i'm willing to possibly believe your side. i just don't see the solid evidence though.

[DrKvothe]

Houses can't build themselves ergo God must exist. Fucking brilliant.

[Illuzionz]

The evidence couldn't possibly be anymore solid and anymore obvious than it's going to get so I'm not sure what else to tell you. Anything that didn't exist at one point had to be created. I mean this is literally 1st grade logic. Every single thing you mentioned as "natural" didn't exist at one point. Planet fucking Earth didn't exist at one point. It HAD to be created.

[Kagatob]

Stop replying to the troll. Notice how he is obsessed with this "1st grade logic" of his. Considering his obvious lack of knowledge as to how matter and energy work, he likely only made it to the first grade before being pulled out of school and officially indoctrinated.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Illuzionz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence couldn't possibly be anymore solid and anymore obvious than it's going to get so I'm not sure what else to tell you. Anything that didn't exist at one point had to be created. I mean this is literally 1st grade logic. Every single thing you mentioned as "natural" didn't exist at one point. Planet fucking Earth didn't exist at one point. It HAD to be created.

you're right, they all had to be created. i still don't see how creation implies consciousness though.

[Illuzionz]

Originally Posted by pharmakos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you're right, they all had to be created. i still don't see how creation implies consciousness though.

It's common sense really. Everything man made required consciousness to create. Every bee hive requires a bee to have made it. Have you ever seen anything that man has made form randomly on it's own? In order to create something it has to be designed. Only a conscious intelligence can design something. A pile of bricks will never turn into a house unless a conscious person comes along and designs and builds that house. Even in a trillion years those bricks would never just pick themselves up and turn into a house. This proves that time is irrelevant when discussing things like evolution because time cannot cause impossible things to occur.