monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[Troxx]

For the record, DSM and I do not disagree on everything. Take a look at the paladin shield question in the tank sub-forum. Some things are a matter of opinion. Of those things i actually agree with him more often than not. Other things are more fact based and objective. Many of those things we agree on but some of those things his understanding of basic game mechanics are divorced from reality.

Confront DSMs perception of reality and the thread will explode quickly into a literal storm of shit.

I have a 60 monk with epic and 13/21 SoM. It used to be as good at dps as Tstaff (Tstaff still better for general purpose use. After the 2h patch Tstaff took off like a rocket and I stopped punching things. I later sold Tstaff for 38/40 IFS (funds needed elsewhere) and IFS still wins. IFS performs shockingly well even on raid targets.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the record, DSM and I do not disagree on everything. Take a look at the paladin shield question in the tank sub-forum. Some things are a matter of opinion. Of those things i actually agree with him more often than not. Other things are more fact based and objective. Many of those things we agree on but some of those things his understanding of basic game mechanics are divorced from reality.

Confront DSMs perception of reality and the thread will explode quickly into a literal storm of shit.

I have a 60 monk with epic and 13/21 SoM. It used to be as good at dps as Tstaff (Tstaff still better for general purpose use. After the 2h patch Tstaff took off like a rocket and I stopped punching things. I later sold Tstaff for 38/40 IFS (funds needed elsewhere) and IFS still wins. IFS performs shockingly well even on raid targets.

I am not sure what perception you think you are confronting. I've said in this thread repeatedly that 2h weapons can out damage 1h weapons.

The only person who goes crazy is yourself when your perceptions are challenged. I showed Epic + SoS beat IFS without fistweaving at 52, and you are simply in denial about it. The storm of shit was from yourseld trying to constantly deny my data for no rational reason.

I am simply disproving the over-generalization about 2h weapons vs 1h weapons. OP is level 16, and does care about how weapons work at lower levels.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP is level 16, and does care about how weapons work at lower levels.

OP was level 16 … 20 months ago. He’s either level 60 already or quit playing. I promise you he is not sitting at level 16 reading this thread and attentively taking notes on how best to hit level 17.

Right now the only thing you are doing is arguing with a bunch of EverQuest and forum veterans who know you’re wrong.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP was level 16 … 20 months ago. He’s either level 60 already or quit playing. I promise you he is not sitting at level 16 reading this thread and attentively taking notes on how best to hit level 17.

Right now the only thing you are doing is arguing with a bunch of EverQuest and forum veterans who know you’re wrong.

See? More shitstorm when his perception is confronted.

His main argument against my parses was they were too short. But then he accepts a shorter set of parses that agrees with him without question.

Will you agree with me Epic + SoS outdamages IFS without fistweaving at level 52 based on the data?

[Troxx]

Dude when these things come up and a DSM thread starts it isn’t you vs me.

It is always you vs EVERYONE.

You’re just to proud/stubborn/autistic to see it. In a you vs EVERYONE standpoint … none of here are noobs. Most have been playing this game for (or nearly) a quarter of a century.

Why you always gotta be so weird? It’s exhausting … but also amusing.

[Troxx]

The data is insufficient to draw a conclusion. Go get yourself more of it. I will agree that at level 52 the damage will be a lot more similar than at 60 because of:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html?setcookie=1

Monk primary dmg bonus at level 52 for 1handers: 9
Monk primary damage bonus at level 60 for 1handers: 11
IFS (40 delay) dmg bonus at level 52: 18
IFS (40 delay) dmg bonus at level 60: 34

Also mainhand triple attack at 60 skews thing further in favor of 2hand. But for 52? The numbers will indeed look more similar compared to 60. As to which absolutely averages more dmg over time? That’s gonna require a whole heck of a lot more parse time … and parse time under identical situations to even out the randomness that is baked into this game.

-same exact buffs
-same exact haste
-same exact mob (not just mob type, but also mob level which is challenging on xp group mobs.

You provided data. The data was not of low quality, there just isn’t enough of it.

Beyond which does the max average dps, the correct and “best” choice will also depend on other factors. Are you solo or tanking or just melee dpsing from behind? Does the mob have a dmg shield?

Ripostes delivered with a 38/40 > ripostes 9/16
Ripostes received with 38/40 <<<< 9/16 plus anything offhand
Dmg shield eaten with 38/40 <<<<<<<<<<< 9/16 plus anything offhand

So yeah, after 30 a monk actually is better off using a 2hander most if not all of the time.

/eyeroll

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data is insufficient to draw a conclusion.

Ripqozko's parses were shorter than mine. So you admit to being incorrect for using his parses to support your position. Please admit this officially.

You have a 60 monk. Please provide what you consider to be "sufficient", and I will match it!

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So yeah, after 30 a monk actually is better off using a 2hander most if not all of the time.

You have zero data to support this position. By your own standard, this is insufficient. This is simply a baseless opinion.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ripqozko's parses were shorter than mine.

Rips parses have been given dozens of times over many different fights across many targets over the years. As a Ranger with a Cek sword he is very proud of what he can do with it. He provided 2 here. He has provided many from other targets over the years (have you forgotten?) and the point is always the same. As a Ranger with inferior dmg tables and no mainhand triple attack he consistently outperforms other “better dps” classes using dual wield. He is proud of what he can do with a Ranger with Cek 2hs. All rangers who care about dmg output should prioritize this weapon.

His parses are consistent with my experiences playing my 60 Ranger, 60 Warrior and 60 monk. It’s also consistent with my experiences with a 60 pal before and after the patch.

His parses are consistent with reality. They are full fight parses. You can’t exactly run a longer Vindi parse. It dies when it dies.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rips parses have been given dozens of times over many different fights across many targets over the years. As a Ranger with a Cek sword he is very proud of what he can do with it. He provided 2 here. He has provided many from other targets over the years (have you forgotten?) and the point is always the same. As a Ranger with inferior dmg tables and no mainhand triple attack he consistently outperforms other “better dps” classes using dual wield. He is proud of what he can do with a Ranger with Cek 2hs. All rangers who care about dmg output should prioritize this weapon.

His parses are consistent with my experiences playing my 60 Ranger, 60 Warrior and 60 monk. It’s also consistent with my experiences with a 60 pal before and after the patch.

His parses are consistent with reality. They are full fight parses. You can’t exactly run a longer Vindi parse. It dies when it dies.

Lol you still can't admit you are wrong on such a simple point. If 3 minutes is too short to get an accurrate parse, that is true regardless of the mob.

My parses at 3 minutes were also consistent with reality. I have a video and logs to back it up too.

[Troxx]

For the record my monk hasn’t used epic since shortly after (within a day or 2) of the 2h dmg bonus patch. Only used epic fists after that to push interrupt complete heal mobs (when that was still a thing).

That was years ago and no I’m not going to sift back through years worth of logs to find those old fights. I know what the truth is and I have played that game with you enough times to know that it won’t matter. Your mind is closed and incapable of change once you hunker down. We have threads hundreds of pages and thousands of posts long demonstrating that.

You do you. If you want to believe wrong things, more power to you.