How do I report a named kill steal?

[Jimjam]

I don't believe my arguments lead to the conclusion that one can only kill mobs one already is camping.

My arguments only cover how one secures the exclusive right to camp amob (kill ph, clear room or inherit via list/hand off).

As I've already stated, if no one has done any of these actions the mob is uncamped and FTE. The camp rules exist to prevent kill stealing; you don't need camp rights to kill a mob, you just can't kill a mob to which another player has camp rights.

'First come first served' doesn't seem to be a legislated rule. Perhaps this thread will change that. It's certainly a rule I choose to play by. I don't always have the means to check if another player has secured their camp by any of the 3 paths previously mentioned (cycling ph/room or list hand off) and I don't want to risk KSing another players legitimate camp just because I suspect that they may be faking their claim to it.

Edit: and thanks for entertaining my position in a courteous manner, Loramin. You truly are a gentleman.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you don't need camp rights to kill a mob, you just can't kill a mob to which another player has camp rights.

'First come first served' doesn't seem to be a legislated rule.

Ok, this seems to be the crux of it: you're not saying you need to kill a PH to take a camp, just that you need to kill a PH to prevent anyone else from taking that camp.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Edit: and thanks for entertaining my position in a courteous manner, Loramin. You truly are a gentleman.

I try (and often fail) to be civil, but it's easier to be respectful when dealing with esteemed posters such as yourself.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also Loramin, why did you snip out the section on how a camp is considered 'held'?

I did, but to be fair I added ellipsis, the international symbol of "and I'm going to skip some stuff here".

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do realise the part you removed affirms the very point I am arguing? It's not your camp until you kill a spawn?

It says 1) kill ph/room to hold camp
2) if someone wishes to contest camp you need to maintain a presence

2 is not triggered unless condition 1) already exists; a camp needs to be held to be contested and to be held you have to had cycled ph/room.

Not quite. It says "if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing". The key point is that it does not say "the only way a camp can be considered held is if you kill a PH", it just establishes that if you are holding down the camp you get to keep it.

I then quoted the parts I quoted because they support my argument [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In any case, if I'm up to speed now I think your position came off as being more extreme than what you're actually advocating. You're 100% in agreement with everyone else on everything (including whether stealing the camp is wrong or not), except that you're saying "look, if two people show up to unspawned spawn point there's nothing in the official rules saying that the guy who was there first gets it". I tried to make a case for why you're wrong, and I think I made a decent one, but as you noted it required a bit of cherry-picking and the rules certainly don't out and out say "first come first serve".

In practice, I think we'd all be a bit surprised if Bob (in my example) showed up hours ahead, waited patiently, and then got sniped, and the staff did nothing. Assuming Bob was respectful to the staff and (just for the sake of argument, I would never actually expect this) has fraps showing things, I would expect that the staff would come down on Fred.

But I have to admit that, like many things rules-related, it's not crystal clear, and my predictions of how the staff would handle it may be wrong. One more reason to make my wiki rules project next on my to do list ...

[Toothed]

And if Bob needs to take a piss he does it in hadden lake and sends you a tell about it because he is a lizard tyranny with all the required bits to dot such a thing

[bricke75]

Originally Posted by Toothed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if Bob needs to take a piss he does it in hadden lake and sends you a tell about it because he is a lizard tyranny with all the required bits to dot such a thing

You have a really strong fixation on me using the restroom. I'm creeped out. You've mentioned me in the restroom at least 5 times now. Stop being gross.

[Jimjam]

Also Loramin, why did you snip out the section on how a camp is considered 'held'?

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it

You do realise the part you removed affirms the very point I am arguing? It's not your camp until you kill a spawn?

It says 1) kill ph/room to hold camp
2) if someone wishes to contest camp you need to maintain a presence

2 is not triggered unless condition 1) already exists; a camp needs to be held to be contested and to be held you have to had cycled ph/room.

[Jimjam]

TheSurgeon I appreciate the depth of thought you've given this, and the time you've taken in your response.

Clearly we have a difference of opinion on whether a mob can be a ph of itself. I think I'd only consider triggered mobs or mobs with a 100% drop rate as not having a ph.

I totally agree camps like this should be first come first served basis, that's how I personally treat them, but it's not really what the rules currently say. Certainly not clearly.

Also, cool your jets. I'm managing to disagree with many of you without resorting to insults.

[Zal22]

Thread now bad and unfunny. Thanks for ruining it.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Zal22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thread now bad and unfunny. Thanks for ruining it.

If you wanted the thread to be funny you should have tried harder to make it funny?

I gave it plenty of time to run its course / be sent to RNF in that regard.

As it didn't get sent that way, and the lolz had fizzled out, it seemed a good opportunity to discuss possible ambiguity in the rules and disconnect between players and enforcement.

You're welcome to unruin the thread if you like, or alternatively find a new storm in a tea cup to fawn over.

I hope this post was masturbatory and pompous enough for you Iwap.

[Jimjam]

Personally, I think to communicate we are camping mobs we should have to

1) drop a beer bottle on the floor
2) hold a fishing rod; what is a camp without a bit of fishing?
3) also hold a torch, for what is a camp without a campfire?

Tbh Hadden is the camper we should all aspire to be.

[Triiz]

Once DS becomes a quest bottleneck I hope neckbeards are forced to clear the room every 20 mins for 24 hours straight or risk losing the camp.