If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you're missing the point. Religion didn't raise money and votes for Proposition 8. People did. They did it through the Mormon church. If the Mormon church didn't exist, they'd have done it through some anti-gay marriage PAC. In fact, that very trailer quotes a person saying that the Church was operating as a PAC. You're talking about "religion" as if it's forming people's opinions on the matter, when that is clearly not the case. As stated above, persecution against homosexuals pre-dates Jesus by thousands of years. In the case of its work on Proposition 8, the Mormon Church might as well have been the NRA. You're acting as if these viewpoints are being created by religion, when in reality, the religious entities you're pointing at are only being used as tools to legitimize and organize previously-held prejudices and beliefs.

Of course these view points are created by the church. Which bible DOESN'T say that homosexuality is a deadly sin? If religion wasn't around in the first place to brainwash people into it's agenda of right and wrong (that is quite hypocritical and morbid to say the lead) than our societies perspective on personal beliefs and lifestyles would be different.

Of course the mormon church was part of a PAC. But where do you think those anti gay movements and establishments got their seed of bigotry? It started somewhere, and Judaism is the oldest form of anti gay propaganda.

[skulldudes]

arguing about religion, or lack thereof, is like making jokes about how arguing on the internet is like the special olympics.

old and tired.

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by skulldudes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

arguing about religion, or lack thereof, is like making jokes about how arguing on the internet is like the special olympics.

old and tired.

so was arguing woman's suffrage.

[Theldios]

Originally Posted by Theldios [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want to know where you get this so called "fact" from
Because in central and south america the population is 90% catholic the rest is "other" So to say that Fact only the middle east is as religious as the U.S.A. is really kind of ignorant.

Many many many contries are just as or more religious than the U.S.A.

Still waiting....

[Theldios]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of course these view points are created by the church. Which bible DOESN'T say that homosexuality is a deadly sin? If religion wasn't around in the first place to brainwash people into it's agenda of right and wrong (that is quite hypocritical and morbid to say the lead) than our societies perspective on personal beliefs and lifestyles would be different.

Of course the mormon church was part of a PAC. But where do you think those anti gay movements and establishments got their seed of bigotry? It started somewhere, and Judaism is the oldest form of anti gay propaganda.

Please quote for me passage and verse where itsays homosexuality is a deadly sin. Bet you can't

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by Theldios [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still waiting....

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

there are the reports of religion in the united states. AKA less than 2% of the population is atheist (or will admit it).



* Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
* Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
* 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
* Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."


You tell me where ANY religion CONDONES homosexuality, and i'll eat my words.

[Daldolma]

Judaism is most certainly *not* the oldest form of anti-gay propaganda. Your ignorance on the matter is showing, and that's not meant as an insult. It's not necessarily common knowledge, I'm simply informing you. The first Jewish anti-gay laws were recorded in the 6th century BC. Assyrians had anti-gay laws recorded in the 11th century BC. And it's highly likely that there was severe persecution against homosexuals in the centuries predating the Assyrian laws, but obviously, the recording of those eras is spotty -- particularly in niche areas like social response to homosexuality. Anti-homosexual sentiment was *not* created by any church or any religion. Neither was male chauvinism. Both were "grandfathered in", if you will.

And if you truly believe that organized religion is brainwashing the American masses into adherence, then why is it that so many religious edicts are flatly ignored? What makes the Church so effective at indoctrinating anti-gay sentiment, while they fail miserably at preventing the use of condoms? Why do so many people oppose abortion, while so many gladly partake in pre-marital sex? The fact is, the Church isn't brainwashing anyone. People take the Bible and use it to confirm their prior-held beliefs, whether or not that's what the Bible actually says. The vast majority of NRA supporters are religious Christians. Do you think Jesus would have been pro-automatic weaponry for the masses? I'm guessing no.

Religion is a red herring. It's about ignorance and dogma. Some people use religion, some people use the Constitution, some people use nationalism. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao managed to do everything you accuse religion of doing -- without religion.

[Theldios]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

there are the reports of religion in the united states. AKA less than 2% of the population is atheist (or will admit it).



* Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
* Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
* 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
* Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."


You tell me where ANY religion CONDONES homosexuality, and i'll eat my words.

Perhaps you do not remeber your own words. You stated as fact that the onlyother countriesin the world more religious than the USA are in the middle east.
I Called bullshit and pointed out latin america. and you link something that only touches on religion in america?I still call bullshit

And where do any of those passages call it a deadly sin?
Do you even know what the term "deadly sin" means?
Please learn of what you speak before spouting terms like "deadly sin"
Which is a term created by catholic doctrine not the bible.
Matter of fact there is no such think as a "deadly sin" in the bible

So again please quote me a passage where it is stated it is a "deadly sin"
Still Bet you can't

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Judaism is most certainly *not* the oldest form of anti-gay propaganda. Your ignorance on the matter is showing, and that's not meant as an insult. It's not necessarily common knowledge, I'm simply informing you. The first Jewish anti-gay laws were recorded in the 6th century BC. Assyrians had anti-gay laws recorded in the 11th century BC. And it's highly likely that there was severe persecution against homosexuals in the centuries predating the Assyrian laws, but obviously, the recording of those eras is spotty -- particularly in niche areas like social response to homosexuality. Anti-homosexual sentiment was *not* created by any church or any religion. Neither was male chauvinism. Both were "grandfathered in", if you will.

And if you truly believe that organized religion is brainwashing the American masses into adherence, then why is it that so many religious edicts are flatly ignored? What makes the Church so effective at indoctrinating anti-gay sentiment, while they fail miserably at preventing the use of condoms? Why do so many people oppose abortion, while so many gladly partake in pre-marital sex? The fact is, the Church isn't brainwashing anyone. People take the Bible and use it to confirm their prior-held beliefs, whether or not that's what the Bible actually says. The vast majority of NRA supporters are religious Christians. Do you think Jesus would have been pro-automatic weaponry for the masses? I'm guessing no.

Religion is a red herring. It's about ignorance and dogma. Some people use religion, some people use the Constitution, some people use nationalism. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao managed to do everything you accuse religion of doing -- without religion.

Exactly, thank you for proving my point. Without religion, that would be one less reason to have an excuse for bigotry and intolerance. It's just a visage to cover pure and simple, hate for anything different then the opinions of the movers and shakers in the churches.

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by Theldios [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Perhaps you do not remeber your own words. You stated as fact that the onlyother countriesin the world more religious than the USA are in the middle east.
I Called bullshit and pointed out latin america. and you link something that only touches on religion in america?I still call bullshit

And where do any of those passages call it a deadly sin?
Do you even know what the term "deadly sin" means?
Please learn of what you speak before spouting terms like "deadly sin"
Which is a term created by catholic doctrine not the bible.
Matter of fact there is no such think as a "deadly sin" in the bible

So again please quote me a passage where it is stated it is a "deadly sin"
Still Bet you can't

http://www.prolades.com/amertbl06.htm

more than 50% of those countries have higher % of atheists than the united states.