Dem Debates

[iruinedyourday]

This is a thread about the democratic debates and thier candidates, go to your ghetto thread and post bigj

[Pokesan]

a lot of folks in this thread are building tiny blemishes into fatal flaws, in this thread, regarding the candidacy of bernie sanders. he's not jesus or superman folks, judge him as a person not a goddamn ideology embodied or whatever the hell you think you're doing

and as always, remember to feel the bern!

[iruinedyourday]

Do you really not want to see 8 more years of this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmwGAd1L-o

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you really not want to see 8 more years of this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmwGAd1L-o

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you really not want to see 8 more years of this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmwGAd1L-o

bringing this one back cus its great

[maestrom]

Hillary just came out with this idea that students should be working while they're in school and that should be part of their educational financing because that's what she did.

This is ridiculous for many reasons. The biggest of which is that it puts poor kids at yet another disadvantage to rich kids in college. It also completely ignores that it's not 1970 anymore. Tuition isn't 1000 bucks a year, and you can't pay for most of your tuition grinding coffee beans or shelving books in the library like you could when she went to college 40 years ago.

The jobs that are required to earn enough money to pay for college are simply not available to college students. And if a college student manage to land one of those jobs, they would be under enormous time constraints that would either reduce their ability to do their job and continue to ear money for college, or reduce their ability to do well in college.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me wonder about Hillary. She attempts to lead on an issue and comes out on the wrong side.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if a college student manage to land one of those jobs, they would be under enormous time constraints that would either reduce their ability to do their job and continue to ear money for college, or reduce their ability to do well in college.

I don't know about this part. Undergrad degrees aren't exactly difficult. It's pretty trivial to work 20-30 hours a week while doing an undergrad and still having time to party. Working through college isn't a bad thing.

But you're right about the cost and the cost of college needs to come way down. And the best way for that to happen is basically the opposite of what the dems have done and what the dems propose now. Guaranteed + cheap loans means colleges don't have to compete so much based on cost. Remove all the federally subsidized loans and you'll go a long way to solving this problem.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remove all the federally subsidized loans and you'll go a long way to solving this problem.

You haven't gone to grad school in the last 3 years have you?

Federally subsidized loans were recently eliminated for grad school programs ~3 years ago. Enrollment is still going up, tuition is still outpacing inflation.

The federal subsidies are a drop in the bucket of the cost of college and are not a significant driver in tuition costs.

If your undergrad degree wasn't hard enough then you probably could have (should have?) gone to a better school. I bet you went to the school you did because of costs though.

The problem is, ability to pay for school isn't always tied with ability to succeed in school. We should have an environment where people go to schools where the only consideration they have is will they get the educational experience that is right for them. If you're smart enough to take advantage of a top tier school, then you should be able to go to a top tier school and not have to wonder about whether you'd be able to pay for it.

Loans have been a step in the correct direction. Credit allows smart poor people to fund their educations. But it falls short because of the risk in the employment market. And has the unintended consequence of increasing price for everyone as demand for college goes up.

A better solution is one that lets people go to the school that lines up with their abilities without saddling them with debt. Establish real dollar price controls on public universities. Or just have a medicare-style single payer system for college education.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You haven't gone to grad school in the last 3 years have you?

Federally subsidized loans were recently eliminated for grad school programs ~3 years ago. Enrollment is still going up, tuition is still outpacing inflation.

The federal subsidies are a drop in the bucket of the cost of college and are not a significant driver in tuition costs.

If your undergrad degree wasn't hard enough then you probably could have (should have?) gone to a better school. I bet you went to the school you did because of costs though.

The problem is, ability to pay for school isn't always tied with ability to succeed in school. We should have an environment where people go to schools where the only consideration they have is will they get the educational experience that is right for them. If you're smart enough to take advantage of a top tier school, then you should be able to go to a top tier school and not have to wonder about whether you'd be able to pay for it.

Loans have been a step in the correct direction. Credit allows smart poor people to fund their educations. But it falls short because of the risk in the employment market. And has the unintended consequence of increasing price for everyone as demand for college goes up.

A better solution is one that lets people go to the school that lines up with their abilities without saddling them with debt. Establish real dollar price controls on public universities. Or just have a medicare-style single payer system for college education.

This is a great post considering the realities of what it like out there.

Great post.

[Ranndom]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hillary just came out with this idea that students should be working while they're in school and that should be part of their educational financing because that's what she did.

This is ridiculous for many reasons. The biggest of which is that it puts poor kids at yet another disadvantage to rich kids in college. It also completely ignores that it's not 1970 anymore. Tuition isn't 1000 bucks a year, and you can't pay for most of your tuition grinding coffee beans or shelving books in the library like you could when she went to college 40 years ago.

The jobs that are required to earn enough money to pay for college are simply not available to college students. And if a college student manage to land one of those jobs, they would be under enormous time constraints that would either reduce their ability to do their job and continue to ear money for college, or reduce their ability to do well in college.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me wonder about Hillary. She attempts to lead on an issue and comes out on the wrong side.

Hitlery also thinks adults should go to "Fun Camps"