Pantheon kickstarter

[Grozmok]

Sounds a bit like the way the abilities worked in DAoC.

[stormlord]

It'll be itneresting to see how the systems in Pantheon evolve.

I particularly liked this comment from earlier on the kickstarter comments page:

Eadren about 8 hours ago

I think where Gazz's viewpoint is coming from is, as he mentioned the Divination school in EQ. Most classes had spells that weren't cast nearly as frequently as, say, their damaging spells. Which caused you to have to cast it for the heck of it just to level it up rather than as you played, as with your damage spells, buffs, etc. From an immersion stand point, you're practicing the spell to get more proficient. But from a fun standpoint, if there's no reason to cast that particular spell over and over (invisibility, for example) you notice the tedium, where its hidden with damage spells. Oberon also brings a good point.

Link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...allen/comments

I really like that comment because it highlights an important point, in my mind. If you're going to require skills be trained, do in such a way it happens more naturally as a result of the gameplay. Standing still and casting a spell repeatedly (and uselessly) to train it is not fun because there's no gameplay mixed in to keep you occupied. I hope Brad can keep all this in mind so as to not repeat mistakes made in EQ.

This is the same reason I did not like camping. Figuring out a camp is fun because there're things to do in the process of figuring it out. However, after that it's repetition. Oftentimes, you'd just be sitting there and hiding and afking for 10 to 20 minutes. It's possible you may be in a camp where you'd be continually killing things to get the ph to pop, but even in that case you're still killing the same things over and over, resulting in repetition. If Brad can resolve all this somehow by making loot acquisition less repetitious, it'd be a great sign.

In modern MMO's the answer to loot acquisition and camping seems to be a continual flow of quests moving you around. Because you're being moved around and engaged in the quests, there's less repetition. In the process of loot acquisition you're actively playing and going to new areas, thus avoiding having to camp.

One other note about quests is they're handmade, not random. Many games try to insert random content, but it always seems to be less effective at producing enjoyment because it's computer generated. Perhaps knowing this can make finding a solution easier, so you don't rely too much on random things.

And one finale note about repetition. The reason it happens is because developers fail to create enough content to keep players occupied. The secondary reason it happens I feel is because some developers use it as a means to separate players, so that some can rise above the others. This usually happens in more competitive games. The problem is repetition is not fun and by enforcing it a game will become exclusive and more isolated. Bottom line, repetition is a poor substitute for content AND competition. It's not what makes games great.

[Grozmok]

I like the concept of practice to get the skill up, but in the spectrum of fun vs tedious, EverQuest was way far on the tedious end.

I think a system like that can be implemented that strikes a balance so you aren't standing around in the EC tunnel casting your shit over and over lol

[Ceythos]

Originally Posted by Grozmok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the concept of practice to get the skill up, but in the spectrum of fun vs tedious, EverQuest was way far on the tedious end.

I think a system like that can be implemented that strikes a balance so you aren't standing around in the EC tunnel casting your shit over and over lol

Agreed, striking a balance between naturally skilling up through regular gamplay vs tediously casting an ability will be on our minds. Using Divination as an example, what if there'd been a skill that let you tell more about a mob beyond just /conning them, like you could see hidden buffs or debuffs on the mob with the right spell? Maybe not the best example, I'm still working on my first cup of coffee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[sajbercub]

Ive backed Pantheon with $100 dollars!

[Ceythos]

Originally Posted by sajbercub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ive backed Pantheon with $100 dollars!

Thank you! and to everyone else for any pledges and the continued discussions.

[Rec]

skilling up was only annoying because a class wouldn't get an ability of that school at an early level. Even if it's from a lame spell at least we will have access to something from the beginning to use in the course of normal play and it won't turn into this have to sit somewhere casting over and over for half the day.

[Grozmok]

Any thoughts on your death mechanic yet?

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Grozmok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any thoughts on your death mechanic yet?

From what I could gather from the first couple of Q&As with Brad, there won't be "tedious" corpse runs... but he agreed that the players should "fear" dying and there will be some kind of XP loss.

EQ2 had it nailed at its launch, super hardcore. If someone in your group died you'd all lose XP. I remember a group wipe in some CB type zone and everyone raging in group chat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ceythos]

Originally Posted by Grozmok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any thoughts on your death mechanic yet?

Originally we were shooting for death mechanics similar to Vanguard's - exp debt, gear durability hit, and leaving a tombstone. The more we've talked about it though, we're considering going with something a bit more severe - nothing set in stone just yet, though.