Proposition For Raid Rules - Input Requested

[Jarnauga]

Originally Posted by Ungriim [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First off I would like to say that this has been talked up to a few people in private - and has not been decided on yet by any guild. That being said this is what I propose, and would like feedback on it.

1. VP will remain FTE by any guild at all times.
Regardless of what goes on outside of VP, at all times VP will remain a CSR zone with no training and standard current FTE rules. Pull locations can be decided by guilds (ie zone in kills legal or not etc.)

2. The 2 hour window stall remains in effect.
Outside of VP - whoever kills a Kunark or Classic Dragon will be required to wait 2 hours before making an attempt the next time the dragon pops.

3. Forced raid breaks for high-kill guilds

Explaination: If you look at whokilledit.com, there are 2 dragons on 3 day (~8 kills a month) and 9 dragons on 7 day (~36 kills a month) for a total of roughly 44 dragon kills per month. Lets take that at a 25% rate. 11 dragons a month. ANY guild that kills more than 11 dragons a month is forced to take a raid break from Classic/Kunark dragons for the first week of the following month.

Reasoning: A lot of people are concerned that this 2 hour window thing will just create a top-2-guild-rotation and still not help the server population / nostalgia / raid scene out. I believe that this rule will either 1) Have the top guild sitting out for a week - and more than likely a couple of them sitting out, -or- 2) If they try to dodge it by killing only 11 dragons, then they will be leaving other dragons up anyways by picking and choosing.

VP: The 11 Dragon kill count WILL include VP dragon deaths, but the ruling WILL NOT suspend you from killing dragons in VP - see Rule #1.

4. Suggestion - Rogean reopens Raid Forum
Topic with each mob, guild leaders post in the topic when the mob is killed and by who. Topic to keep track of dragon tallies stickied. Allow everyone to see topics and post about possible raid alterations/solutions.





I am looking for honest opinions from different guilds and players on what you think about this scenario. I personally feel that it will allow other guilds to kill dragons, still allow higher end guilds to compete in VP, AND it will give hardcore players a break once a month from having to answer those goddamn batphones at 3am for Talendor.

Please dont 'trolololol this will never work' - be constructive.

I like this. It would please both the "roflmaozergcompetition" people and the "casual scum". Casual scum would pretty much never have to fight both FE/IB and TMO, and a lot of time just the other casual guilds. It would also ensure that the casuals that actively track and put in some work to get some targets would get it, instead of a rotation where everyone would be at the same level.

I would add 2 things:

- in case of full repop, FTE and FTE only applies. Full server repop and actually racing to a mob (and not just logging on toons camped there) is the most classic thing we will ever get in here, and it should be preserved.

- we should also agree that these rules applies to kunark and classic mobs only. Wehenever Velious hits, we should go back to a full competition/FTE like there was before, at least to see how it all goes with the new targets added. Further debates might be necessary then, we'll have to see that.

[criddopher]

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[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is the elephant in the room that no one is addressing.

The top guilds "compete" in a manor that they are the only ones willing to compete at.

All the other guilds hate poopsocking, training mobs around, camping out characters and leaving them until a bat phone tells them to log in like automatons, shady FTE tactics to try to wipe the other guild, tracking targets for 96 hour periods, ect.

To come up with a solution to include the rest of the server, you need to realize they won't be competiting in this manor and would rather not do what you do. A lot of people would rather not enter a zone where there is already a raid force clearing mobs. They have respect and etiquette to allow that raid force that was there first to do their thing in peace, than to jump up all in their face and "compete" for mobs. I'm pretty sure most of the guilds that aren't currently competing at the highest level, would rather rotate in some form or fashion, otherwise, all this talk is for naught. I don't see any scenario where Knights Who Say Ni gets an attempt on any dragon if they are forced to compete under current competition standards.

What Manor will you be competing in?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The top guilds "compete" in a manor that they are the only ones willing to compete at.

and I would add "and have arbitrarily decided that guilds who don't deserve very little."

Fortunately, the number of raid guilds who don't compete at that level are in the majority, and Rogean has stated we will go forward with whatever the majority decides.

So, in effect, its no longer up to the ultra competitive guilds to decide at what level of competition a guild must participate in order to raid Trakanon. We can all set that bar together at a level that is reasonable for the majority of us.

[quido]

Hate to burst your bubble BDA folks, but combined TMO/FE/IB are still going to get the vast majority of stuff. BDA asking for a guaranteed 1/4th split while saying TMO and FE/IB each get a 1/4th split is preposterous.

We are talking about increasing significantly the number of targets available to people who previously didn't get as much or got nothing at all. We are not talking about equal footing between everyone.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are talking about increasing significantly the number of targets available to people who previously didn't get as much or got nothing at all. We are not talking about equal footing between everyone.

[Ungriim]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happens some month when TMO reaches the quota and FE or IB don't?

I'm advocating leaving 1 out of X alone no matter what if you've killed it - it is not dependent on a good or bad month, and it holds for all mobs. We can work out details for people who haven't repeatedly killed these mobs to get further attempts.

Then they would presumably get the required amount next month and get put back on the "week off" list? This doesn't apply to the precious VP mobs

[quido]

I still think there is a less-convoluted way of achieving this that better bears in mind our buddies that have done little-to-no raiding.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happens some month when TMO reaches the quota and FE or IB don't?

Exactly what's supposed to happen. TMO has had their quota of raid targets for the month at that point and bow out of competing until the next month. They should have managed their points better and maybe let other guilds kill some stuff early in the month if they wanted to have enough points to be part of the competition for an end-of-month Trakanon or Phara Dar or whatever, instead of blowing their wad early and dominating everything.

This directly addresses the key issue Rogean mentioned of monopolization of targets, while still allowing for the same level of competition you currently enjoy for most of the month.

[Ungriim]

I understand that they have Jeremy, and it could be partially - if not mostly - to battered wives syndrome. The raid scene has been retarded for so long that they just stopped trying. Well now rogean is telling us to open it up for them to try.