Want to Start a Rogue and Just want to Make Sure I Understand a Couple Things

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its so cute DSM thinks I wanna actually be last poster. Lolocaust.
It was pure bait, to bring out a last poster and it works. Its an imperative. Compulsive.
But alas, others also just need to post ANYTHING and DSM must, absolutely must post again.
My work here is done cuz anyone else here can elicit a response from Don'tSpamMe.

So, good luck with everything.
The answer is clearly Dex or Agi, but only if ya wanna min/MAX correctly. All else is just fluff.

You keep posting nonsense, so I am not sure why you think this is proof of anything other than you are a troll.

DEX is also easily cappable, as FoS gives DEX too. As does Avatar. AGI does next to nothing above 75, so that is bad advise. You don't see anybody telling people to dump everything into AGI on any class. You put points into AGI if your race is under 75 AGI, until you hit 75 AGI. Thats the only scenario where you put anything in to AGI.

The answer is still STA for your starting stats as a Rogue for OP. If you have zero items and plat, STR can be a good choice to help build up your wealth a bit faster.

[Duik]

Bingo!

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep posting nonsense, so I am not sure why you think this is proof of anything other than you are a troll.

DEX is also easily cappable, as FoS gives DEX too. As does Avatar. AGI does next to nothing above 75, so that is bad advise. You don't see anybody telling people to dump everything into AGI on any class. You put points into AGI if your race is under 75 AGI, until you hit 75 AGI. Thats the only scenario where you put anything in to AGI.

The answer is still STA for your starting stats as a Rogue for OP. If you have zero items and plat, STR can be a good choice to help build up your wealth a bit faster.

Stamina can be capped in velious gear with and without buffs

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:BiS_Rogue_Elf

Saying it’s hard to cap is not necessarily a reason to pick it.

Charisma is the hardest stat to cap. It is the min max stat, there’s no debate about this. The choice of what op should do falls into 3 categories.

STR - casual player/raider - most noticeable throughout leveling/grouping/not having to rely on buffs to cap str
STA - semi casual/frequent raider - nice bonus when you easily Cap strength after raiding for awhile
CHA - hardcore raider who can easily cap sta with buffs and eventually unbuffed and still wants more stat gains

Go ahead and try to tell me STA is more useful than CHA. Doesn’t matter. This is all objectively true if all you care about is end game stats. The majority of people will never even reach the second tier. Which is why most of us have recommended STR.

[Toxigen]

wort pots > STA

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stamina can be capped in velious gear with and without buffs

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:BiS_Rogue_Elf

Saying it’s hard to cap is not necessarily a reason to pick it.

Charisma is the hardest stat to cap. It is the min max stat, there’s no debate about this. The choice of what op should do falls into 3 categories.

STR - casual player/raider - most noticeable throughout leveling/grouping/not having to rely on buffs to cap str
STA - semi casual/frequent raider - nice bonus when you easily Cap strength after raiding for awhile
CHA - hardcore raider who can easily cap sta with buffs and eventually unbuffed and still wants more stat gains

Go ahead and try to tell me STA is more useful than CHA. Doesn’t matter. This is all objectively true if all you care about is end game stats.

I didn't say STA couldn't be capped. I said it is harder to cap, and that is true. You can only buff STA by +50 via Riotous Health. You can buff STR by +235 and DEX by +220 via FoS + Avatar + Maniacal Strength + Mortal Deftness. You are going to cap STR in EC gear, long before you get raid gear. It's really not difficult to show item lists that prove this, https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...6&postcount=18 and https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:GnomeRogueTest have been posted repeatedly.

The reason why I am not suggesting CHA is because that hinges on the assumption that Rogues get Divine Intervention cast on them. I haven't seen this in the past raid metas, and I don't see the spell cast in XP groups. If you want to provide proof that Rogues are being Divine Interventioned often, I would be happy to agree with you.

Until you provide evidence for that, however, STA is the better choice. If Divine Intervention is not being cast on you, CHA is not helping you in any way other than slightly better vendor prices.

As I said before, STR can be a good choice for just about any class if you plan on playing a character that starts off fresh, no plat or items. You will probably be leveling and acquiring wealth slower in this scenario, so having more carry capacity while you have no items is not a bad idea.

OP has 20k to spend, so they do not fall into the category of starting with no items and money. OP can get all the STR and WR bags they need to level to 60 just fine. STA is the correct choice for OP.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The majority of people will never even reach the second tier. Which is why most of us have recommended STR.

If you are the type of player that gets to level 30 and stops, don't worry about starting stats. It isn't going to matter. You can dump your points into WIS if you want. The game is designed to make mobs levels 1-39 much easier than mobs 40+, so you don't need to min/max the level range that you are XPing off of those mobs.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say STA couldn't be capped. I said it is harder to cap, and that is true. You can only buff STA by +50 via Riotous Health. You can buff STR by +235 and DEX by +220 via FoS + Avatar + Maniacal Strength + Mortal Deftness. You are going to cap STR in EC gear, long before you get raid gear. It's really not difficult to show item lists that prove this, https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...6&postcount=18 and https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:GnomeRogueTest have been posted repeatedly.

The reason why I am not suggesting CHA is because that hinges on the assumption that Rogues get Divine Intervention cast on them. I haven't seen this in the past raid metas, and I don't see the spell cast in XP groups. If you want to provide proof that Rogues are being Divine Interventioned often, I would be happy to agree with you.

Until you provide evidence for that, however, STA is the better choice. If Divine Intervention is not being cast on you, CHA is not helping you in any way other than slightly better vendor prices.

As I said before, STR can be a good choice for just about any class if you plan on playing a character that starts off fresh, no plat or items. You will probably be leveling and acquiring wealth slower in this scenario, so having more carry capacity while you have no items is not a bad idea.

OP has 20k to spend, so they do not fall into the category of starting with no items and money. OP can get all the STR and WR bags they need to level to 60 just fine. STA is the correct choice for OP.

The DI Meta doesn’t mean shit. Cha is harder to cap than Sta, PERIOD.

You keep dragging these threads on because you think there’s a right answer. There isn’t. It’s entirely up to the OP how they play the game which one will “matter” even though none of them really do.

I’ve wasted enough time, OP probably stopped reading pages ago and chose STR.

This will be my last reply, enjoy wasting more time here!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The DI Meta doesn’t mean shit. Cha is harder to cap than Sta, PERIOD.

You keep dragging these threads on because you think there’s a right answer. There isn’t. It’s entirely up to the OP how they play the game which one will “matter” even though none of them really do.

I’ve wasted enough time, OP probably stopped reading pages ago and chose STR.

This will be my last reply, enjoy wasting more time here!

INT is also harder to cap with Rogue gear, but I don't see you suggesting it. The only reason CHA could be a viable option is due to Divine Intervention. I haven't seen evidence to suggest Rogues are Divine Interventioned with any frequency, so I do not suggest dumping into CHA.

The game is based on rules and math. There is a statistically superior answer objectively speaking. Saying there isn't is simply not true.

It is generally bad practice to put your points in to a starting stat simply for temporary gains while leveling. You end up wasting the points in the long run, and that is objectively true. This is a long game, and people change their minds. Even if you don't plan on reaching level 60, that doesn't mean you won't level your character to 60 eventually. It's better to plan for the endgame, even if you don't reach it.

STA is going to be the better choice for Rogues most of the time objectively speaking based on the stat distribution of items and buffs in the game. If this character is specifically starting off with no items or money, that is the situation where the STR can be a good choice if you want to save time early on. OP does not fall into this category, so STA is the answer for them. They can certainly choose to do something else, but that isn't relevant to the discussion. There is no requirement for OP to listen to anybody.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

wort pots > STA

25 str is carry capacity for 1kpp, 250pp worth of combine weapons or 25pp of fine steel.

Imo str lets you earn a lot more between vendoring/vendor banking/proper banking.

Whats the cost on a wort charge again?

Maybe it is worth considering extra worts earned vs potential sta hp lost.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People attack me for no reason

lmao

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

25 str is carry capacity for 1kpp, 250pp worth of combine weapons or 25pp of fine steel.

Imo str lets you earn a lot more between vendoring/vendor banking/proper banking.

Whats the cost on a wort charge again?

Maybe it is worth considering extra worts earned vs potential sta hp lost.

i like where your heads at jimbo