New Druid Advice from the experts

[loramin]

Root takes time and mana, and also Druid root can accidentally kill the mob before charm breaks. Ring is instant, mana-free, and will never kill anything.

There is a reason everyone does that same miserable camp for hours on end, or else pays thousands of plat (pre-60, when plat is much harder to obtain): it's because the ring is really good.

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Root takes time and mana, and also Druid root can accidentally kill the mob before charm breaks. Ring is instant, mana-free, and will never kill anything.

There is a reason everyone does that same miserable camp for hours on end, or else pays thousands of plat (pre-60, when plat is much harder to obtain): it's because the ring is really good.

i leveled / played both enc and druid 1-60 and at 60 extensively and never once clicked a gobby ring

QoL? absolutely

It never would have saved me in tight spots though and he is on a budget. I'd much rather have clicky wrist for free DoT than gobby.

[bcbrown]

The goblin ring is clearly really good and if you choose to start with that and nothing else, you'll have a great time charming on the druid. But I'd have to agree with Toxigen and PatChapp that I'd rather have the gear. I took a druid to 60 charming as much as possible, and I've never had a goblin ring. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing, but it never seemed that hard to cast invis and have them break at the 10-15% range. 5% is obviously better, but 15% is still pretty good. ~300 hp and ~150 ac is going to turn charm breaks that would kill you into charm breaks where you have to gate, and charm breaks where you have to gate into charm breaks you can ride out. Regeneration gives you efficient healing, but you need a sufficient safety margin to rely on it.

Here's an example gear list that's pretty close to what I'm actually using right now as a charming druid (28, at CT gator pit):

Gatorscale Leggings 400
barbed dragonscale boots 1200
Tree Weave/Shroud of Nature 300
Crystal Chitin Armplates 600
Crystal Chitin Gauntlets 400
2x Chipped Bone Bracelet 2x100
Prayer Cloth of Tunare (easy to get in crushbone)
Swiftclaw Sash or Reed Belt 500
Dire Wolf-Hide Cloak 600
Nathsar Vambraces 200
Neck: quest the tunare root clicky
jasper gold earrings 2x30
Platinum Ruby Veil/Bone Mask of the Jarsath 300
Othmir Fur Cap 50
Guard Captain`s Mallet 600
Sarnak Battle Shield 500
bronze statue of bathezid 500
5/55 rings 2x250

That's about 7k, but with a couple of subsitutions it's easy to bring below 5k:

Small Wisdom Deity 50 -450
Dwarven Work Boots 100 -1100
Onyx Drakescale Cloak 75 -525

I think either option is a valid choice, but I'm leveling my third druid now and I prefer the gear to the ring.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The goblin ring is clearly really good and if you choose to start with that and nothing else, you'll have a great time charming on the druid. But I'd have to agree with Toxigen and PatChapp that I'd rather have the gear. I took a druid to 60 charming as much as possible, and I've never had a goblin ring. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing, but it never seemed that hard to cast invis and have them break at the 10-15% range. 5% is obviously better, but 15% is still pretty good. ~300 hp and ~150 ac is going to turn charm breaks that would kill you into charm breaks where you have to gate, and charm breaks where you have to gate into charm breaks you can ride out. Regeneration gives you efficient healing, but you need a sufficient safety margin to rely on it.

Here's an example gear list that's pretty close to what I'm actually using right now as a charming druid (28, at CT gator pit):

Gatorscale Leggings 400
barbed dragonscale boots 1200
Tree Weave/Shroud of Nature 300
Crystal Chitin Armplates 600
Crystal Chitin Gauntlets 400
2x Chipped Bone Bracelet 2x100
Prayer Cloth of Tunare (easy to get in crushbone)
Swiftclaw Sash or Reed Belt 500
Dire Wolf-Hide Cloak 600
Nathsar Vambraces 200
Neck: quest the tunare root clicky
jasper gold earrings 2x30
Platinum Ruby Veil/Bone Mask of the Jarsath 300
Othmir Fur Cap 50
Guard Captain`s Mallet 600
Sarnak Battle Shield 500
bronze statue of bathezid 500
5/55 rings 2x250

That's about 7k, but with a couple of subsitutions it's easy to bring below 5k:

Small Wisdom Deity 50 -450
Dwarven Work Boots 100 -1100
Onyx Drakescale Cloak 75 -525

I think either option is a valid choice, but I'm leveling my third druid now and I prefer the gear to the ring.

Main benefit to goblin ring is the spell slot and mana it saves, so it depends on your class as to how much you end up enjoying it. I love goblin ring on my Enchanter, as I always have too many spells and not enough spell slots. It's a pain to swap spells mid battle. I don't care too much about the instant cast. Will probably swap it with a Ring of Stealthy Travel evenrually so I don't need to mem invis, and I can still break charms pretty quick.

Haven't played a Druid beyond using guild bots for ports, so I can't say for certain how painful spell slots are for Druids.

I will say that I wouldn't want goblin ring and nothing else to start as a caster. At minimum you want the easy +HP items like 6/65 Rings for leveling. Some Wis/Int/Mana gear is nice in the beginning too due to fizzles eating a lot of mana. That was a problem on my Enchanter when I was wearing the Kobold Jester Crown, which lowers INT.

That being said I wouldn't overspend on stat gear either. Clickies usually have more value than individual stat pieces, and you quickly can get to the point where you are spending thousands of plat for a generally irrelevant small boost.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Main benefit to goblin ring is the spell slot and mana it saves

Wow, I haven't seen a "DSM says something completely wrong, with total confidence" hot take in a while [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main benefit of the ring has nothing to do with the spell slot or saving invis mana! Maybe Enchanters care about the slots, but a leveling Druid needs only 4-5 spells to charm fight. As for the mana ...

When a charmed pet is fighting a non-charmed mob, you want to break charm when both are as close to 1% as possible. This lets you finish them off with a small nuke, root, or even melee, instead of a more expensive nuke.

But when you cast invis to break root, you have a three-second delay between wanting to break charm and getting to. Break too early, and both mobs will require more mana to kill. Wait too long, and you'll lose either 50% or 100% of the XP (depending on which mob dies first). Oh, and spells can also fizzle or be interrupted (especially in popular underwater charm spots like the CZ Alligator pit, Kedge, or Siren's Grotto). Even if you are cautious and break super early, you can still fail to break in time.

The ring's power is not about saving invis mana, it's about saving mana on the (far more expensive) nukes you have to cast at the end of the fight (ideally to the point where you don't even have to cast one). But even more importantly, it's about ensuring you always get 100% XP from both mobs you fight: never losing 50/100% XP from kills is a big deal.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, I haven't seen a "DSM says something completely wrong, with total confidence" hot take in a while [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main benefit of the ring has nothing to do with the spell slot or saving invis mana! Maybe Enchanters care about the slots, but a leveling Druid needs only 4-5 spells to charm fight. As for the mana ...

When a charmed pet is fighting a non-charmed mob, you want to break charm when both are as close to 1% as possible. This lets you finish them off with a small nuke, root, or even melee, instead of a more expensive nuke.

But when you cast invis to break root, you have a three-second delay between wanting to break charm and getting to. Break too early, and both mobs will require more mana to kill. Wait too long, and you'll lose either 50% or 100% of the XP (depending on which mob dies first). Oh, and spells can also fizzle or be interrupted (especially in popular underwater charm spots like the CZ Alligator pit, Kedge, or Siren's Grotto). Even if you are cautious and break super early, you can still fail to break in time.

The ring's power is not about saving invis mana, it's about saving mana on the (far more expensive) nukes you have to cast at the end of the fight (ideally to the point where you don't even have to cast one). But even more importantly, it's about ensuring you always get 100% XP from both mobs you fight: never losing 50/100% XP from kills is a big deal.

You are being silly here. Saving mana is saving mana. You can use it for any spell. Why you thought saving mana only applies to invis is very strange to me. I didn't say the mana saving only applied to invis. As I've said before, you need to improve your reading comprehension skills.

Saving spell slots is great too. I am not sure why you don't understand such a basic concept. Having to swap spells mid fight can be dangerous. The more spells you have to swap, the worse it is. If Druids only need 4-5 spells slots for a kill, saving a spell slot is still nice because you can put something else on your bar you'd normally swap to. This saves time on swapping out spells in general. You could even put a lower cost nuke on your bar and use it situationally if you think you can save mana doing that.

I don't have an issue with breaking charm and nuking before mobs die, whether I use instant cast invis or not. That comes down to knowledge of the mobs you are charming, more than saving a few seconds on a break. I am not saying there is no utility to a faster break, but it's the least important part. I'd use a Ring of Stealthy Travel over goblin ring, but it's a bit more expensive, which is why I haven't gotten one for my Enchanter yet.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are being silly here ... As I've said before, you need to improve your reading comprehension skills.

Maybe I misread you on the mana thing, but fundamentally your post still had stuff like this in it:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist (edited) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can still break charms pretty quick (without the ring)

But again, breaking "pretty quick" (not "ring instantly") means losing XP from some kills, and:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

never losing 50/100% XP from kills is a big deal

Look, even if Shawl #7 (with C1 and much better stats) gave the same amount of mana as the ring saves (or even a bit more), and it somehow magically gave me a 9th spell slot ... I'd still take the ring over it.

Why? Because the true power of the ring isn't saving mana or spell slots ...

Originally Posted by loramin (emphasis added) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The ring's power is .... ensuring you always get 100% XP from both mobs you fight

P.S. Apologies for:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, I haven't seen a "DSM says something completely wrong, with total confidence" hot take in a while [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was trying to jokingly reference past "feisty" threads, but upon reading it back, the smiley face wasn't enough, and it came out actually harsh instead of jokingly. Back in the day you deserved harsh replies sometimes, but this certainly wasn't one of them (this was just a bad attempt to joke about those past threads).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe I misread you on the mana thing.

You did. I can't think of any reason why someone would think "invis mana" is a different concept. Mana is mana. It can be used on any spell. Saving mana is good.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But again, breaking "pretty quick" (not "ring instantly") means losing XP from some kills...

I simply disagree that instant invis significantly helps with this. I can get 100% XP on both mobs without instant invis. You just need to know how much HP the mobs have and how much DPS they do and plan accordingly.

Saving mana and a spell slot is the more important use case.

Goblin Ring is used often because Ring of Stealthy Travel is more expensive, and Chardok 2.0 is one of the last patches on a server. Plenty of Goblin Rings get farmed before Chardok 2.0 comes out. Enchanters farm Ring of Stealthy Travel as well, and it is lore. This means having a Ring of Stealthy Travel in inventory at all times for self use is a hassle. You could also maybe make an argument for Goblin Ring on Clerics who use Puppet Strings, as Clerics can't use Ring of Stealthy Travel. Not sure how popular that is after the Puppet Strings nerf. Necromancers have Circlet of Shadow, pre and post nerf, so they have more clicky invis options.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P.S. Apologies for:

I was trying to jokingly reference past "feisty" threads, but upon reading it back, the smiley face wasn't enough, and it came out actually harsh instead of jokingly. Back in the day you deserved harsh replies sometimes, but this certainly wasn't one of them (this was just a bad attempt to joke about those past threads).

Apology accepted. I disagree with your assessment that I needed to be trolled and attacked in the past. Most of those "harsh replies" weren't because of what I did. They were because of what you just did. You misread what I posted, and decided that making a joke/gotcha post was more important than making a thoughtful post. The joke/gotcha post doesn't work when you misread what I post though. It just makes you look silly. I'd advise spending more time reading other people's posts before replying.

[bcbrown]

It will never not be funny to me that in a thread titled "New Druid Advice from the experts" the guy with the most posts is the guy who said

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haven't played a Druid beyond using guild bots for ports

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It will never not be funny to me that in a thread titled "New Druid Advice from the experts" the guy with the most posts is the guy who said

As you can see, Bcbrown cannot rebut my points, and is going back to the argument from authority fallacy. Thank you for admitting defeat. This isn't the first time he's tried this fallacy in the thread. He just can't catch a break. His gotcha posts weren't working on me either.

Not really sure why he thinks you need to have played a Druid to understand item prices or supply and demand lol.

Just so we can equalize the argument from authority fallacy, Bcbrown has never used a Goblin Ring on his Druid. So he has no leg to stand on when it comes to this logical fallacy when discussing Goblin Ring:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I took a druid to 60 charming as much as possible, and I've never had a goblin ring. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing...

I do have a Goblin Ring on my Enchanter, and I have charmed with it.