Player Agreement: Rule Change at the DS Camp

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by Mewlio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Project 1999 isn't an entitlement server where you get something just because you feel you should. It is here to emulate Everquest as we experienced it "back in the day" and instituting rules that just award people things for showing up is bogus.

There are changes that could be made to improve the camp, but implementing a list/line/roll system is dumb.

yeah, which is exactly what p99 staff/devs have done in the past.

[Mewlio]

There are other servers that do this already, don't try and change the existent server to meet your desires when other options exist.

If the majority of people wanted those features, they would be on other servers where those rulesets are key features. I.e. Project Quarm.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by Mewlio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are other servers that do this already, don't try and change the existent server to meet your desires when other options exist.

If the majority of people wanted those features, they would be on other servers where those rulesets are key features. I.e. Project Quarm.

The rulesets have already changed multiple times, that's how we ended on rolls for angry/scout. So the majority of people wanted those to be a fair chance situation. I'm introducing a new one for the parallel camp (because it aligns with Angry also). I'm not sure you understand the similarities between these camps, and existing changes, and how the players already agreed upon these things. Lastly I'm not interested in Project Quarm, it has a ton of different changes (especially loot changes) that do not make sense, I'm certain many others feel similarly.

[FatMice]

I wonder the real life analogy where the OP's logic applies.

Would you walk to the front line of a sneaker drop and expect dibs?

When there is a high demand for a commodity do you think it's fair to assume you deserve something and influence everyone else around you for your pleasure?

Oh here's one. When you get to the line at the grocery store and there aren't enough cashiers, so there you are you're at the end of the line waiting your turn; do you just grow so impatience you demand people move out of your way?

You must park your Prius across 4 parking spots.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by FatMice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wonder the real life analogy where the OP's logic applies.

Would you walk to the front line of a sneaker drop and expect dibs?

When there is a high demand for a commodity do you think it's fair to assume you deserve something and influence everyone else around you for your pleasure?

Oh here's one. When you get to the line at the grocery store and there aren't enough cashiers, so there you are you're at the end of the line waiting your turn; do you just grow so impatience you demand people move out of your way?

You must park your Prius across 4 parking spots.

Standard GG response.

Edit: I guess I'll elaborate

It's clear that your response is meant to be provocative rather than constructive. Let’s me fix each point you're suggesting:

Sneaker Drop Analogy: The comparison to a sneaker drop isn't accurate. The suggestion isn't about jumping the line, but about implementing a system that allows fair access for everyone, similar to how a lottery or raffle system works for high-demand items.

High-Demand Commodities: The current system forces players to camp 24 hours a day to obtain an item, which is neither fair nor healthy. My proposal aims to ensure everyone has a reasonable chance, much like how roll systems have already been successfully implemented for other high-demand camps.

Grocery Store Analogy: Again, this analogy misses the mark. The suggestion is not about pushing others aside but about creating a structured, orderly system that prevents monopolization by a few and distributes opportunities more equitably.

Personal Insults: Resorting to personal insults, such as the Prius comment, clearly rude. The focus should be on the merits of the proposed change, not on attacking those who suggest them.

The goal is to foster a healthier and more equitable environment for all players. P99 has already adapted and implemented similar changes in the past, demonstrating that the community values fair access and reduced toxicity. This proposal follows that same principle.

[FatMice]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Standard GG response.

Edit: I guess I'll elaborate

It's clear that your response is meant to be provocative rather than constructive. Let’s me fix each point you're suggesting:

Sneaker Drop Analogy: The comparison to a sneaker drop isn't accurate. The suggestion isn't about jumping the line, but about implementing a system that allows fair access for everyone, similar to how a lottery or raffle system works for high-demand items.

High-Demand Commodities: The current system forces players to camp 24 hours a day to obtain an item, which is neither fair nor healthy. My proposal aims to ensure everyone has a reasonable chance, much like how roll systems have already been successfully implemented for other high-demand camps.

Grocery Store Analogy: Again, this analogy misses the mark. The suggestion is not about pushing others aside but about creating a structured, orderly system that prevents monopolization by a few and distributes opportunities more equitably.

Personal Insults: Resorting to personal insults, such as the Prius comment, clearly rude. The focus should be on the merits of the proposed change, not on attacking those who suggest them.

The goal is to foster a healthier and more equitable environment for all players. P99 has already adapted and implemented similar changes in the past, demonstrating that the community values fair access and reduced toxicity. This proposal follows that same principle.

You got me! Next time you see any GG at DS make sure you show them this post. I'm sure they will agree, you can have the camp ok?

[magicfest2]

Couple pieces of context:
1) It was not “GG” during the times OP marked as GG. It was at least two distinct groups of players including one group that is not exclusively GG members. We tried to explain this because OP continually treated us like the same group but we are not, in fact we’re in competition with each other. This was apparently totally beyond comprehension. I believe we also had another person do a solo challenge for the camp during this time from GG that was not acting as either group, so lumping GG together in the same way as some other guilds where it’s an official guild activity is not correct.
2) At least the group I’m in does not typically do much contesting for the camp unless one group of players has been monopolizing it for too long (we just stepped away for a while when Castle started doing it, and only recently have started contesting again), or someone has been acting poorly towards us first. In this case, OP was incredibly belligerent the entire time we saw him, contested us nonstop for days, and called in backup to help with his “solo artist” challenge. If OP weren’t one of the most abrasive people I’ve ever met at the camp, I think it is likely their experience would have been totally different.

So… that said, I’d be happy to see better rules and see them more consistently enforced, but IMO this post better belongs in R&F. The list system is better? Really? Lists are the most unhealthy and toxic system in the game, if anything that would make it even worse. Someone else suggested camping in the room if challenged and IMO that would be at least a slight improvement… Better clarity about challenges would also be good, because one person flopped afk is the current meta for it and there isn’t really a good way to prove a valid challenge. We’ve been challenged by a semi-afk 52 cleric too and have to clear carefully because otherwise some monks will appear out of nowhere and take over.

OP did you ever actually do it completely solo or did you end up counting the time your friends in Kingdom cleared everything for you and watched you do DS at the end?

[berbax]

Originally Posted by magicfest2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Couple pieces of context:

It was not “GG” during the times OP marked as GG. It was at least two distinct groups of players including one group that is not exclusively GG members. We tried to explain this because OP continually treated us like the same group but we are not, in fact we’re in competition with each other. This was apparently totally beyond comprehension. I believe we also had another person do a solo challenge for the camp during this time from GG that was not acting as either group, so lumping GG together in the same way as some other guilds where it’s an official guild activity is not correct.
At least the group I’m in does not typically do much contesting for the camp unless one group of players has been monopolizing it for too long (we just stepped away for a while when Castle started doing it, and only recently have started contesting again), or someone has been acting poorly towards us first. In this case, OP was incredibly belligerent the entire time we saw him, contested us nonstop for days, and called in backup to help with his “solo artist” challenge. If OP weren’t one of the most abrasive people I’ve ever met at the camp, I think it is likely their experience would have been totally different.
So… that said, I’d be happy to see better rules and see them more consistently enforced, but IMO this post better belongs in R&F. The list system is better? Really? Lists are the most unhealthy and toxic system in the game, if anything that would make it even worse. Someone else suggested camping in the room if challenged and IMO that would be at least a slight improvement… Better clarity about challenges would also be good, because one person flopped afk is the current meta for it and there isn’t really a good way to prove a valid challenge. We’ve been challenged by a semi-afk 52 cleric too and have to clear carefully because otherwise some monks will appear out of nowhere and take over.

OP did you ever actually do it completely solo or did you end up counting the time your friends in Kingdom cleared everything for you and watched you do DS at the end?

I appreciate the context you’ve provided, but I'm going to correct it.

First, I was not belligerent during my attempts at the DS camp. My interactions with your group were straightforward requests to clear the camp, which were met with hostility, including being called "scum" when you lost the camp. Some of my chat even appears in the video provided, I doubt any of it you'd find "abrasive". Personally I can't get behind the "we are in GG, but we are not GG" scenario between your 3 factions: The Syndicate, Big Urn, and Little Sinew. Just because you have internal competition with each other, doesn't mean the GG doesn't benefit from each of you obtaining the camp/urn and/or money from it.

Regarding the solo artist attempt, I did clear the camp solo for two hours, including Mort Prot. Eventually, The Drift assisted, and we cleared the camp together. I killed DS solo with the room cleared. While it may not meet your definition of a solo artist attempt, it's important to note that fully clearing the DS room solo is practically impossible in the current state of the game. I have additional videos demonstrating my solo efforts if you’re interested.

The goal here is to address the monopolization of the camp and ensure fair access for all players. I see you're willing to change the camp rules, I'm open to suggestions on top of my own.

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by FatMice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wonder the real life analogy where the OP's logic applies.

Would you walk to the front line of a sneaker drop and expect dibs?

When there is a high demand for a commodity do you think it's fair to assume you deserve something and influence everyone else around you for your pleasure?

Oh here's one. When you get to the line at the grocery store and there aren't enough cashiers, so there you are you're at the end of the line waiting your turn; do you just grow so impatience you demand people move out of your way?

You must park your Prius across 4 parking spots.

This is comical, "I earned the pixels". No, you just had nothing better to do with your life.

[loramin]

OP your proposal is still missing a "why". All you have in your "Argument for Rule Change" is a list with (essentially) one reason "I couldn't get DS, and a group of organized players could".

But that's a feature, not a bug. Solo people can't hold that camp down, because they can't keep the room clear. You need a group to clear the room and kill DS, so the system does have a list ... its just that you can't get on it simply by showing up (DS is not Scout) ... you have to "earn" the camp (ie. prove you're able to kill DS), by showing up early to it and holding it down until DS spawns.