Bard stat questions / twink items?

[Dr4z3r]

1) All starting points go in stamina. STAMINA, STAMINA, STAMINA. Every other stat can be easily raised with gear (Opalline Earrings for CHA, Lambent Gauntlets for DEX, etc.). Once you have that as high as is reasonable, you'll need to make sure you have around 120 STR, so that you can actually carry your armor & other gear. Once you have met those thresholds, an even split between DEX and CHA is best.

2) As I said above, you need to get your stamina as high as is reasonable (i.e., don't trade 5 DEX for 1 STA), you need to get your STR to 120 or so, and after that just raise your DEX & CHA as high as you can.

3) I'm not sure.

4) Bard melee damage at 50+ is comparable to a Ranger with no double attack, which means you do well under 1/2 what a Monk or Rogue would. That said, since some of your most important songs (i.e., mana song) are based on the singing skill, which has no instrument until Bard Epic, you should be attacking. Unless you're doing something completely critical like keeping 4 mobs mezzed, the increased killing speed from your melee will outweigh the increased benefit from your instrument modifier.\

5) Bards are one of the least gear-dependent classes out there. You can swarm-kite 5-50+ naked with vendor instruments. Depending on your budget, I'd say start with some AC and modest weapons (Banded + Springwood Clubx2) plus vendor instruments. If you're enjoying the class, move up to Lambent and MM Drums (maybe MM Lute, but don't pay anything over 50p). If you really want to be on the bleeding edge of things, mix-and-match gear (Crested Helm, Mithril Vambraces), grab expensive weapons like Sionachie's Partisan (~2.5k), and if you're really gonna shell out, get some Naggy drums for ultimate speed.

Edit: Sources ~ Wish I'd put my Bard's starting points in STA. Swarm-kited a few levels pre-Kunark. Wish I had double attack. Pro CC'er.

[Mcbard]

I've honestly found charisma to be nearly useless as a bard. Our mez/charm lasts 18 seconds max, and with very bad charisma (something in the 130s I believe) most of the time both of these will stick for full durations, unless a mob is within 1-2 levels of me in which case it will often break within the first few seconds if it breaks at all. If I had to do everything over I would put all of my starting stats into stam, and what little I had left into dex (song failures are fairly frequent, and dex is always good for procs).

Edit: DEFINITELY spend your twink money on instruments over weapons or armor. Then WR bags imo. When I had begun playing I had very little str, which is no good at all for a plate class. Hero bracer +wr bags helped me out a bunch.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Mcbard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've honestly found charisma to be nearly useless as a bard. Our mez/charm lasts 18 seconds max, and with very bad charisma (something in the 130s I believe) most of the time both of these will stick for full durations, unless a mob is within 1-2 levels of me in which case it will often break within the first few seconds if it breaks at all. If I had to do everything over I would put all of my starting stats into stam, and what little I had left into dex (song failures are fairly frequent, and dex is always good for procs).

You do realize the mezzes are all-or-nothing, right? There's no such thing as a partial-duration mez. Charisma has nothing to do with mezzes. How could you play a Bard as a main up to the mid-50's and not know this?

Anyways, Nalkin was right when he said to put all your points into stamina. If I were able to max my sta I'd probably have ~600 more HP than I do now (but that's mostly because my Sta is pathetically low), which is a pretty big deal if you ask me. At higher levels it really does make a difference. Who cares about missed notes? Just cast the song again.

[greatdane]

Ah, the hp difference isn't quite so high. Putting all your points in stamina will probably give you about 200-250ish more hp at 60, something like that. I forget the exact sta:hp conversion rate for bards, but it's probably a notch below the hybrids. It's still the best stat to put your points into for nearly any class (and certainly for non-casters), but it won't make a 600hp difference.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah, the hp difference isn't quite so high. Putting all your points in stamina will probably give you about 200-250ish more hp at 60, something like that. I forget the exact sta:hp conversion rate for bards, but it's probably a notch below the hybrids. It's still the best stat to put your points into for nearly any class (and certainly for non-casters), but it won't make a 600hp difference.

At level 60 I get 4HP per Sta. The 600 HP difference I was talking about was the difference between maxing my sta and keeping it how it currently is, but that's only because my sta is low. My point is that maxing Sta has a lot of potential, maxing Dex does not. I'd rather have 600 more HP than never miss a note. The 25 points you put into Sta will give you 100 HP in the long run, which is better than having 25 Dex imo.

[greatdane]

Is the ratio that low? But yeah, definitely not worth putting points in dex for pretty much any class except possibly warriors. I played an all-dex dwarf warrior for a while and was happy with it, but no other class needs the stat enough to spend irreversible creation points in it. Pretty much all classes should put all points in stamina, although with casters, it's a bit of a toss-up and depends on whether you intend to get high-end gear. You can go all-stamina on every single class and know that you didn't make a bad choice, at least.

[greatdane]

Can't really answer the first couple of questions.

3) Also, is it true that Cha effects your Mez/Enthrall songs, or is it ONLY your Charm?

I'm not completely sure if charisma affects bard charm, but I can say with a good deal of confidence that it doesn't affect mez, lull, or anything like that. They always functioned just like any other spell, for both bards and enchanters.

4) About Bard damage, Ive heard that it's pretty decent, but nothing like Monk/Rog/Warrior because no double attack. If thats true and there damage is just alright, is it worth it to even use weapons in a group? Or should you instead just take an instrument out and sit in the back playing songs?

Bard damage isn't very good, but if you melee and twist your chant dots, you can put out decent DPS. It'll almost certainly be lower than a warrior's, but not pitifully low. This means doing nothing else, though, so it generally isn't worthwhile - you should be singing buff songs, mana song, regen, or something like that. I'd say if you haven't been appointed a specific role (like singing fire resist on a raid) then you can go ahead and melee while singing your haste and mana regen or whatever most groups will expect. When you're needed for a particular raid role, go with an instrument. Also slap on a guitar when you're out of combat in groups, just to squeeze out a bit of extra efficiency.

5) Lastly, if you were going to twink a Bard which items would you try to twink them? Stat items like things with +Sta/Cha/Dex, or HP items like 35hp earrings / HBC / SSB etc.? Also, what twink weapons would be best for Bard, if its even worth twinking them weapons?

I'd go with HP/AC items and decent weapons. Dex supposedly affects song fizzle rates, but they seem to be bugged here and who knows if the code works the way it should. Make sure your strength is good enough to wear plate, and then focus on survivability stats. If some of it has dex on it, that's just nice.

[Dr4z3r]

Lots of people saying bards should sing haste, but I suspect everyone is thinking that all Bard songs are overhaste. Well, they're not. Bards don't get overhaste in Kunark, and EDIT: I didn't play a bard in classic, so I don't know what happens in Velious.

Bard haste is really quite weak: The best Bards get in Kunark is 45% (lvl 54), which gives no other benefits, while enchanters get Celerity (50%) at 39, and Shaman get the same at 56. All of these are v2 haste, so none of them stack with one another. When there's a shaman or enchanter in the group, a tanking song like Nillipus', or the STR/AGI from Verses are probably what you'll want to play.

tl;dr: Bard haste songs are weak and don't stack with anything.

[greatdane]

Not all groups have a shaman or enchanter, especially if they have a bard already.

[soup]

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tl;dr: Bard haste songs are weak and don't stack with anything.

Wait, what? Everything I have ever heard about haste stacking (from the original Kunark days through all my time on p99) has always been "one item, one spell, one song" meaning that the bard haste was stacking with the enchanter haste was stacking with the FBSS.