Potential changes to the way CHA works for enchanters

[Tann]

Originally Posted by rustyfingers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you some kind of fundamentalist / talibans of everquest ?

You clearly don't remember or never read posts by Daldaen if you think Loramin is the fun police.

I'm all for this change if it's classic, but using eqlive data to justify a change to a velious era server seems off.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You clearly don't remember or never read posts by Daldaen if you think Loramin is the fun police.

I'm all for this change if it's classic, but using eqlive data to justify a change to a velious era server seems off.

I don’t like getting the rug ripped out from under you

There was a lot of enchanter hate a few months back on the off topic and rants and flame boards about charm where how charm functioned in classic vs p99 was argued at at no point did any developer come in and say they planned to look at adjusting charm at some future point

I would have really appreciated the heads up because I wouldn’t have committed the time to a class I expected to get nerfed months down the road. I understand that maybe even the majority of people can and will adapt to sudden nerfs such as these but I purposefully sought out P99 and then an enchanter because I thought balancing changes were done. At this point all I can be is grateful that I can get out now versus having sunk even more time and attention into the game and class

“It’ll be a minor change, enchanters are still OP”. Fine, let’s accept both points. What also has been proven is the devs don’t like how enchanters charm performs, and there’s no guarantee that they will be satisfied after the change, and I now know that they do not communicate their intentions in advance (which I ABSOLUTELY do not fault them for, this is not a paid position, they are under NO obligation to). But what this all means is there’s no guarantee that there won’t be additional future changes or nerfs to charm or some other function of enchanters and that change most likely won’t come with any advanced notification. And that just doesn’t sit well with me and why I sought this server out

[Tann]

To be fair making it more risky to charm would raise the skill ceiling no?

Is there any proof that it's not classic on p99? "How I remember it" ain't proof, as I've been told numerous times about bard swarming.

[pink grapefruit]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be fair making it more risky to charm would raise the skill ceiling no?

Is there any proof that it's not classic on p99? "How I remember it" ain't proof, as I've been told numerous times about bard swarming.

Swarm kiting was well-documented back in the day. I also did a lot of real swarm kiting.

People who never played bard until P99 have no idea what swarm kiting actually is.

swarm kiting is NOT AE kiting lol.

[Tann]

Originally Posted by pink grapefruit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Swarm kiting was well-documented back in the day. I also did a lot of real swarm kiting.

People who never played bard until P99 have no idea what swarm kiting actually is.

swarm kiting is NOT AE kiting lol.

I don't mean to further derail this enchanter charm thread, but..

 

what I meant by not working like it did on live is the pack would turn on the charmed pet once you got far enough away, some sort of leashing effect.

I used to play on a potatoe pc back in the day so my clip plane was almost at 0, so I knew once I couldn't see the pack anymore they would all turn on my charmed pet.

I almost got a wizard from Legacy of Steel killed because whilst kiting one time I got far enough from my swarm and he was sitting down close enough that they all charged at him.

No proof of course, but last I checked.. couple years ago, it still doesn't work like this here.

[pink grapefruit]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't mean to further derail this enchanter charm thread, but..

 

what I meant by not working like it did on live is the pack would turn on the charmed pet once you got far enough away, some sort of leashing effect.

I used to play on a potatoe pc back in the day so my clip plane was almost at 0, so I knew once I couldn't see the pack anymore they would all turn on my charmed pet.

I almost got a wizard from Legacy of Steel killed because whilst kiting one time I got far enough from my swarm and he was sitting down close enough that they all charged at him.

No proof of course, but last I checked.. couple years ago, it still doesn't work like this here.

I thought the only reason swarm kiting didn't work was bc they couldn't code it in properly? Every old bard should remember swarming TD raptors, right?

[Tann]

Originally Posted by pink grapefruit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought the only reason swarm kiting didn't work was bc they couldn't code it in properly? Every old bard should remember swarming TD raptors, right?

TD Aviaks was my jam.

[Dolalin]

Originally Posted by pink grapefruit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought the only reason swarm kiting didn't work was bc they couldn't code it in properly? Every old bard should remember swarming TD raptors, right?

Swarm kiting should work if all of the aggro/hate mechanics that Torven outlined in this thread of his are implemented properly:

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39819

Specifically the proximity aggro bit and hate list transfer:

If every player on a NPC's hate list is outside of melee range, and they all have similar hate levels, the NPC will prefer to attack the closer player.


There is some sort of hate bonus applied that scales by distance to the target only if the NPC is not close enough to hit somebody. If you attempt to train an NPC over somebody who has the same amount of hate as you do, it will chase after them instead of you from a variable distance that is larger when the hate difference is smaller. The more hate you have over them, the closer you have to bring the NPC to them in order for it to attack them. Like other bonuses, this bonus isn't terribly large so it's rather trivial to overcome. This bonus seems to taper down to 0 roughly 100 distance away, or perhaps some factor of the NPC's size/melee range. This is of course very difficult to measure.

NPCs calling for help will cause them to social aggro on players even after they are already aggro on another player.

There is an issue on the emus where, for example, you can aggro an NPC, then drag it nearby another NPC on the same faction that is engaged with another player, and you will not get on the hate list of that second NPC. This is incorrect behavior. NPCs will share who they hate with each other even after entering combat.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be fair making it more risky to charm would raise the skill ceiling no?

Not if charm ceases to be a viable mean of achieving things and people simply no longer bother charming. They will just achieve the same results by sleepwalking through content with more players instead of soloing or duoing.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not if charm ceases to be a viable mean of achieving things and people simply no longer bother charming. They will just achieve the same results by sleepwalking through content with more players instead of soloing or duoing.

Please, I can only get so excited.

Everything you described sounds so classic!