TEAMS pvp, Please?

[Old_PVP]

Originally Posted by Tune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why do people think teams is really going to help

A zerg guild is going to just flock to the same team.

First we need warm bodies to make a zerg, which is the single biggest problem for PVP servers. No warm bodies.

How do we get warm bodies you ask? We need bluebies. Bluebies aren't completely averse to PVP, however they want "safe zones" that a Teams environment would bring. Give the people what they want. PVP servers don't prosper for very long without fresh meat (bluebies).

[Tune]

Originally Posted by Old_PVP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First we need warm bodies to make a zerg, which is the single biggest problem for PVP servers. No warm bodies.

How do we get warm bodies you ask? We need bluebies. Bluebies aren't completely averse to PVP, however they want "safe zones" that a Teams environment would bring. Give the people what they want. PVP servers don't prosper for very long without fresh meat (bluebies).

safe zones? meaning every1 is on the same team? lol

like how is that different than a blue server

[Old_PVP]

Originally Posted by Tune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

safe zones? meaning every1 is on the same team? lol

like how is that different than a blue server

No. I put "safe zones" in quotes for a reason. It doesn't mean these zones are safe and one would be immune from PVP...LOL! It just gives the illusion of safety to potential bluebie levelers out there. Zones on any Team based server tend to be controlled by certain teams based on geographical location. For example, the Good team on old school Sullon Zek controlled Everfrost / Permafrost. Why? because barbarians were Good. Other dungeons are even more obvious. Evils controlled Guk, cause it was in the Troll's backyard. Opposing teams can still go into any of these zones, but obviously there will be stiff resistance, given a strong server population. This gives bluebies a "safe" place to level, which may be deep within Team territory so they don't worry so much about PVP. No place should ever truly be safe though, and the most determined killers might still get ya.

Customize the teams so they are completely balanced and it will be a server worth remembering.

[JayDee]

Teams only works with very high player count. Good luck convincing Rogaen with that one.. Current red population is not very encouraging and I don't think that's a major selling point to bluebies who you will most certainly need to convert.

[Old_PVP]

Originally Posted by JayDee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Teams only works with very high player count.

The same could be said about any server really. High player count usually leads to a better server, whether its Teams or FFA or strictly PVE. What type of ruleset will attract the most players? That should be the end game goal... how can we get the most warm bodies, while still having PVP enabled?

History has shown that Teams work. Original EverQuest had ~40 servers... only 4 ended up having PVP enabled... therefore ~10% of the EQ population cared enough about PVP to actually play on one. And this was back in the day, when PVP was awesome!

3 out of 4 of those PVP servers were TEAM servers. It saddens me to report that only ~2.5% of the total EverQuest population played on Rallos Zek (FFA) by the time Team servers were options.

If you take a look at Project 1999 statistics... we follow this trend pretty closely. Roughly 1,000 population on Green. Roughly 500 population left on Blue. 50 or so regularly playing Red. We make up about 3% of the P99 population.

TEAMS might be the solution. We might at least get 10-20% of the total population with Teams.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Old_PVP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First we need warm bodies to make a zerg, which is the single biggest problem for PVP servers. No warm bodies.

How do we get warm bodies you ask? We need bluebies. Bluebies aren't completely averse to PVP, however they want "safe zones" that a Teams environment would bring. Give the people what they want. PVP servers don't prosper for very long without fresh meat (bluebies).

This is how red staff was trolled into a hard population bleed. You had people when the server started telling the devs everything was fine with xp loss in pvp either because A) They got a kick out of "griefing people off the server". It was a meme all over the forums.
B) Guilds like Nihilum had all the reasons to say xp loss was fine because they wanted to raid unchallenged and some people like Nizzar were RMTing the loot.

The pop was obviously tanking because of xp loss, yet it took like a year to fix it and by then the damage was done. The devs were either falsely comforted by people who had either one of the interest i noted or didnt give a fuck or a mix of both.

It feels like groundhog's day with people pushing for teams. Its so obvious that once a few griefers reach 50, they will camp low level zones 24/7 and grief the fuck out of either people catching up in levels or people wanting to make alts. That will be your safe zone. Just making people lose xp and making them log off was enough of an incentive to fuel the griefers on red 1.0. Imagine letting them one shot anyone in a zone.

I feel like people pushing for teams are either trolling to get another depopulation fest with red 2.0 or they havent thought out the ramifications of the server ruleset well enough. Like ive repeated this for years and not once, someone replied and told me how the high levels camping low level zones thing would not happen.

[Old_PVP]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel like people pushing for teams are either trolling to get another depopulation fest with red 2.0 or they havent thought out the ramifications of the server ruleset well enough. Like ive repeated this for years and not once, someone replied and told me how the high levels camping low level zones thing would not happen.

Well let me be the first to dispel these false notions. There are many ways to curb this behavior. The most obvious are level caps for PVP. (adopting more of a Tallon / Vallon level range of PVP) I believe it was +/- 8 level range?

But... if we want that whole TOTAL WAR, scorched earth feel, which is awesome, then unrestricted PVP is the best. It is also the best way to deal with pesky OOR healers. So Sullon Zek style no level range would be best.

I saw many high level killings on Sullon Zek back in the day. Some fool would come into a lowbie zone, and shortly be forced to flee or die after getting swarmed by groups of noobs. Also, your own team's high levels would occasionally patrol low level areas, clearing out griefers.

However, if neither one of these things occur, then there are custom changes that could be implemented to put an end to that type of griefing:

• Incentivize home defense style PVP. -custom titles, 1 item loot etc... would only apply to PVP by high lvls in lowbie areas, and only eligible to the defending team. (this also allows item loot to make an appearance, in a limited form.)
• Yellow text "territory defense" broadcasts, alerting your team to the griefer.
• Negative "res effects" or something similar to the griefer after repeated killings of the same person.
• Sullon Zek token system or a custom point system - disincentivize lowbie killing by removing a token / points upon repeated killings.
• Custom faction hits - the griefer will soon be hated by all the guards & npcs.

Obviously the server would need clearly defined team territory to make some of these custom changes plausible. This pic encapsulates it pretty well.

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[Tradesonred]

First thanks for the detailed response, we might get somewhere with this if devs read the feedback (I dont think they will lol)

Originally Posted by Old_PVP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I saw many high level killings on Sullon Zek back in the day. Some fool would come into a lowbie zone, and shortly be forced to flee or die after getting swarmed by groups of noobs. Also, your own team's high levels would occasionally patrol low level areas, clearing out griefers.

I dont think this will ever happen on red, the high levels giving a shit about their team. I could be wrong though. What im not wrong on, is the level range. On Rallos you could basically burn all your mana as a wiz on a 4 level range and barely dent his health. When you con'd a player and he came out red, that was the cue to go hide or gate. This will be worse with an 8 level range and basically invincibility for high level players with no level range. Thats what hit me immediately with WoW and why i said its a better pvp game. You could contribute to taking down a 52 hunter with your 27 priest if the hunter got cocky and got himself into a 3vs1 fight (real thing that happened to me). I remember on sullon you could nuke a red all day and nothing would happen, the guy can just stand there and take it. Perma resists, if i remember correctly.

Originally Posted by Old_PVP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, if neither one of these things occur, then there are custom changes that could be implemented to put an end to that type of griefing:

• Incentivize home defense style PVP. -custom titles, 1 item loot etc... would only apply to PVP by high lvls in lowbie areas, and only eligible to the defending team. (this also allows item loot to make an appearance, in a limited form.)
• Yellow text "territory defense" broadcasts, alerting your team to the griefer.
• Negative "res effects" or something similar to the griefer after repeated killings of the same person.
• Sullon Zek token system or a custom point system - disincentivize lowbie killing by removing a token / points upon repeated killings.
• Custom faction hits - the griefer will soon be hated by all the guards & npcs.

These are all good suggestions and i couldnt see the server working with at least something similar patched in. I would add that you cant camp in a hostile zone and if you disconnect, you have to wait 2-3h before being able to log back in again. Or something. Maybe some additional custom guards to secure the zones a bit more, too. But since P99 prides itself on no custom, fat chance any of this will happen.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Tune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why do people think teams is really going to help

A zerg guild is going to just flock to the same team.

only way to make the server fun is make it detrimental to zerg stuff.

make mobs scale in difficulty with more people on it

I mean i will come back to the forums just to laugh at the whole thing if they go with teams when it is obvious this will happen. It only takes like 10 no-life nerds to park alts in newb zones, clean the whole fucking zone, log off, wait 30 mins, kill everyone again to destroy the server's population.

[Gustoo]

Current state of red doesn't say much for the success or failure rate of a red 2.0 whether its teams or not teams.

I strongly prefer actual rallos zek rules by a huge mountain landslide,

But custom 2 teams sullon rules would work for me too, to be a substantial change from red 1.0