Monk mitigation too high?

[Torven]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The plate tanks with similar gear will have much more HP than the monk will have, thus CH is much more efficient.

On my warrior, shaman and cleric buffs account for nearly 50% of my hitpoints. There isn't going to be a huge difference between monk and tank hp with both shaman and cleric buffs on. Any HP advantage means jack so long as your group never has to stop pulling due to cleric mana. Not to mention the extra dps, aggro generation, and fungi regen/mend heals are going to mitigate any hp advantage as well.

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This statement is pretty much useless since there are FAR more monks with great gear than tanks with great gear. Damn near everyone has a monk twink, shouldn't be a surprise that people see a lot of monks who can tank. (keep in mind, the term "twink" can be used to reflect on characters even when they're in their 50s)

But I'm sure someone will try and turn that into a circular argument by saying "There's more monks because of how OP they are!"

Oh yeah. I'm sure monks are the favorite alt class because they are so terrible. Just like there were so many magicians prekunark because they were so awful. Really.

All that monk AC comes from super expensive gear that few monks can attain, amiright?

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why does the gear other classes have access to bother you? Why do you want to celebrate someone else getting slapped in the face?

Because the power of one class affects all the other classes. If one class is a DPS and tank class in one, then there is no reason to group a tank. This isn't difficult to understand.

Some of the best exp my enchanter friend ever got was trioing disco with a monk and necro. So much for CH HP advantages.

[Numbers_]

If it's like it was during classic then complaining is just pissing in the wind.

I think, like soup said, a lot of what people see as overpowered monks are just people who are twinked out with regen robes and other twink stuff. I don't tank very well because i'm untwinked and have pretty "normal" equipment.

I hear it gets even crazier during velious, but isn't nerfed at least until lucin.

[Enderenter]

Originally Posted by Slust [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I recall, the Monk mitigation nerf didn't happen during Velious (though I do remember the stink it caused).

It wasn't until October 16th, 2002, that this mitigation change happened (according to patch archives).

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2002-2.html

Planes of Power came out October 29th, 2002, so that would put this mitigation nerf just right before PoP launched.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQue...lanes_of_Power

You are correct. The monk damage mitigation nerf occured during Luclin/PoP era. Definitely post-Velious.

[Zanti]

Originally Posted by Numbers_ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If it's like it was during classic then complaining is just pissing in the wind.

I think, like soup said, a lot of what people see as overpowered monks are just people who are twinked out with regen robes and other twink stuff. I don't tank very well because i'm untwinked and have pretty "normal" equipment.

I hear it gets even crazier during velious, but isn't nerfed at least until lucin.

We are primarily talking about the 50+ game where monks are actively sought after over plate tanks in dungeon groups because they offer more to a group than any tank at the moment.

[Rais]

And yes, monks did tank this well in classic. You see a big difference between Monks vs Warriors after lvl 56,where warriors take the cake.

So stop crying.

[Zanti]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And yes, monks did tank this well in classic. You see a big difference between Monks vs Warriors after lvl 56,where warriors take the cake.

So stop crying.

You see no such difference. Ive had monks tank emperor chottal and the spore king without any problems so where then is the benefit of plate? Groups don't want hybrids because they have low dps and their penalty hits the whole group, they don't want warriors because they have to hold back on dps to keep mobs on one person. Right now in seb a PUG group is camping disco 1 and 2 with monk, cleric, chanter, 3 rogues with 0 med time needed.

Why then would you want anything else outside of a raid?

[Slust]

Hybrid exp penalties do not effect the entire group. They don't give cooties, contrary to (popular?) belief.

When a mob dies, the first thing that is calculated is how much exp everyone gets. Using the delicious pie example, 100% of the pie is distributed based upon the levels of everyone in the group. Once this is determined, then the exp penalties get applied, per individual.

So everyone gets their slice of the pie. Then right before each person eats their slice, the penalties hit and anyone with an exp penalty gets a piece of their pie cut off before consumption. If it isn't working like this, then it's a bug. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also the ability to tank != the efficiency of tanking. Plate is meant to give a constant mitigation that gives healers more time to react; since the incoming damage is constant and not bursty, it is much easier for a healer to say "At 30%, I'm going to heal" and know the tank is probably going to make it until then, whereas a Monk is subject to failing a couple avoidance checks and taking more damage more unpredictably.

[Rais]

I personally want a warrior in my group. I play a 60 monk, and I can tell a huge difference between me and a 60 warrior. Sure I CAN tank anything. Hell I tanked Emp when I was lvl 54 on test. Was pretty close battle, but it was mainly due to his life taps.

A monk tanking effectively dicks his dps.The monk just might do the same dps as a Warrior while tanking, maybe little more. I can throw out some %, but you won't understand it.

Using your example of a Monk Cleric 3 Rogues and enchanter as poof. Lol really? ANY GROUP with 3 rogues, enchanter, and cleric won't much any down time. A fucking ranger can tank that group and be fine.

Here I'll lend you some links, so you know as to why Monks WERE nerfed, but in velious. It had nothing to do with monks, it was everything to do with Warriors. Of course in Planes of Power Varent decided to change things back because Monks weren't OP tanking.They FIXED Warriors.

It was mainly 1 person up in arms about it. You should have seen when he would have a shitfit when Denron or Daahoud would tank better than him on raids. It made raids so much fun when Furor would rant. He just used monks as examples, and they got hit.

http://www.monkly-business.net/forum...ad.php?p=10424

http://www.erollisimarr.com/forum/ar...p/t-12437.html

[goodthink]

monk mit was nerfed until some time after the launch of luclin. I clearly remember the nerf affecting my beastlord AND monk.

It was part of classic, and the fact remains warriors were/are still the best at raid mobs.

[Rais]

Here is another good link.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...hp/t-3941.html

The monk nerf is probably the silliest thing that VI did in hindsight.
They nerfed monks for 2 things that added up to one reason.
a) poor itemization. Prepop monks could get too close in AC
to thier plate counterparts
b) low mob attacks. Prepop mobs had a low attack.
a+b = prepop Monks came very close to warrior/plate mitigation yet had an avoidance edge.

Problem you'll notice is the timinig of the nerf, and words "prepop"
It was what only a couple weeks till POP came out? POP
fixed A+B itself. Monks no longer come close to plates in AC.
And AC does matter vs high attack mobs.