Enchanter OP impact poll

[bomaroast]

Charm never lasted this long on live. If charm lasted for a couple minutes, then that was a good charm. Everyone knows it, but the devs are biased for some reason. Who knows /shrugs

[Snortles Chortles]

must be hard to code or unknown variables lost to time

[Gustoo]

bombaroast - Dev's just need facts and no one had provided detailed facts to back it up.
snortles - yep

Wait a sec can't we play one of the modern everquest TLP servers and see how these spells operate? Wouldn't it give us some base line?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

bombaroast - Dev's just need facts and no one had provided detailed facts to back it up.

I mean, in general here yes, absolutely.

But there's been over a decade of bug reports about Enchanters, often with evidence ... and nothing has ever come of them. So it kinda makes you think more bug reports, with more evidence, isn't going to change the underlying issue (and that the underlying issue may actually be that Nilbog's a big Enchanter fan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]).

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, in general here yes, absolutely.

But there's been over a decade of bug reports about Enchanters, often with evidence ... and nothing has ever come of them. So it kinda makes you think more bug reports, with more evidence, isn't going to change the underlying issue (and that the underlying issue may actually be that Nilbog's a big Enchanter fan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]).

Which bug reports are open with the balance of evidence suggesting P99 is wrong? I've been following azxten's quest and afaict the only report supported by evidence is animation hp (with showeq npc pet hp evidence).

[azxten]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which bug reports are open with the balance of evidence suggesting P99 is wrong? I've been following azxten's quest and afaict the only report supported by evidence is animation hp (with showeq npc pet hp evidence).

I'd suggest reviewing this latest bug report thread.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=378303

Particularly near the end and the links Dolalin provided.

1. October 2000 thread from castersrealm forums, pretty good comments about effectiveness:

https://web.archive.org/web/20001211...ML/000811.html

2. June 2002 thread from castersrealm forums, a little out of era but still worth a read, mentions an 'upgrade patch' that might be worth nailing down, probably in Luclin if I had to guess:

https://forums.crgaming.com/cgi-bin/...c&f=9&t=007423

3. Nov 2003 thread from therunes.net (enchanter class site), touches on the 1% issue and it maybe not being totally accurate, pretty far out of era though, idk:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040104...php?p=9731&amp

4. Jan 2004 thread on Castersrealm, along with #1 it mentions that a chanter refreshing mez will never get a blur chance on a refresh of the mez, only if mez is not already active on the mob, also applies for other enchanters trying to refresh a mez. Again, rather far out of era though:

https://web.archive.org/web/20041107...p?p=861536&amp

5. This eqenchanters mailing list post from March 2000 says the following:

Quote:
Hey Horchata, enthrall is a good spell, (entrance is better)
and yes it does have the properties of a memblur, but its not %100.
I thought they nerfed mesmerize way back level 30 mobs kept attacking after
i mesd them. Its because the higher level they are above the spell level,
the more chance they resist the memblur part. Anyway when fighting level
35-53 mobs

youll find the mes series doesnt quite wipe the hate list, and will find
yourself attacked very often. Memblur isnt %100 either but its chance for
success are much higher. If a mob is in combat how do you wipe its hate if
it aggros you or a caster? Enthrall may only make it angry with you.
https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archi...html/2440.html

6. CastersRealm forums thread from June 2002 that is pretty detailed and has logs of tests comparing mem blurs and mez/enthrall etc, defo worth a read:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020718...c&f=9&t=007338

7. CastersRealm forums thread from November 1999 talking about mez and blur chances:

https://web.archive.org/web/20000606...ML/000002.html

8. Everlore page for Memory Blur, in era, but not much here, typical low-quality Everlore page.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010714...ory+Blur&type=

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#33
Old 02-11-2021, 10:11 PM
Dolalin Dolalin is offline
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From alt.games.everquest:

1. Thread from April 2000 discussing mem blur on mes:

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.game...m/WBo1eHiX-roJ

2. Another one from June 2000 by the same ench that goes into some more detail:

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.game...m/Ra2vvSHE-o0J

3. This is an "enchanters nerf list" from Feb 2000 and claims chance to mem blur on mes was reduced, not sure about timelines or veracity:

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.game...m/cIxhxuPKEk8J

There is a ton of great info in those links showing what the classic Enchanter experience was like and it's nothing like P99. People not memming mez because it didn't work so often from LOS bugs? AE Mez ignoring Z axis and hitting mobs through walls? Least played class?

Read through the posts, it's pretty telling. Enchanter was a garbage broken class in classic. You can even see that you could actually DOT mobs while they were Mezzed and Enchanters thought this was normal and expected. They consider it a nerf when it was changed. Absolutely zero discussion of charm as a viable way to play. It's almost never discussed. There is another bug thread where Dolalin provided links to evidence of how buggy charm was. Not just breaking often but just ridiculously bugged. Charmed pets wouldn't respond, would fall through world, etc.

My feeling after reviewing a lot of this is that charm was so broken and worthless it wasn't discussed often in classic era and so there isn't much info to go on in terms of how exactly it should function. I don't think P99 devs want to introduce horrible bugs like falling through world and such to provide the full classic experience. It's a bit of a rock and a hard place. When is a bug too much of a bug to consider it part of classic and when does fixing a bug result in a non-classic experience?

My argument is that if Enchanter charm was so bugged as to be mostly dangerous then allowing Enchanters to use it in classic era without those bugs is non-classically OP and it needs a nerf in some kind of way.

Ha ha! I can't tell you how many times I have had to sit down in
the middle of a horde to memorize Mesmerization FAST while the
tanks keep everything taunted off of me. Nowadays I keep it
ready, even if I can't really cast it because of the LOS bugs,
because it is still the group's "Get out of jail free" card. We
rarely have anyone who can evac.

No kidding. If you catch yourself with your Mesmerization, you are
going to fall down dead in approximately 24.5 seconds, and the rest
of your party will soon follow.

The spells through the wall bug is a killer. Any AE spell, like
Mesmerization, is going to wake up whatever is above you, below
you or through the wall. I wish Verant would fix that so that if
you can't see it or affect it, it doesn't notice the spell.

Oh ya, and where are all these enchanted items we were 'supposed' to be
able to make ??? Enchanters seem to be the most overlooked class in the
game .. maybe that's why there's so few of us ? I've been doing player
counts lately and found that the ONLY class that is less popular than
Enchanters is Shadow Knights .. even the rogues have us out-numbered =(

When's the last time the Enchanter was given an upgrade or had a spell
made more effective ?? (I'm not talking about the ability to make a
useless vial of mana either)

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

bombaroast - Dev's just need facts and no one had provided detailed facts to back it up.
snortles - yep

Wait a sec can't we play one of the modern everquest TLP servers and see how these spells operate? Wouldn't it give us some base line?

No the TLPs run a much more modern code base than classic.

[Toxigen]

Can't you just enjoy this free game?

[azxten]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can't you just enjoy this free game?

Yes, I do enjoy it.

I don't understand why people cry so much about trying to recreate an accurate classic experience. Even in the threads I just linked from Dolalin what is the first reply to all the classic charm bug evidence?

seek help

People are so fucking angry about what is obviously a non-classic, trivializing, OP class that sucks a lot of the challenge out of the game potentially being nerfed.

Where is the evidence? Where is the evidence? I can't see! Where? What? Huh? Dial up! People didn't know how to play! They're just making up stories! No one knew how EQ worked that's why Enchanter was the least played, most buggy, and most likely to die in any given situation.

Ok, clear evidence charmed pets attacked group members and so on. No, must have been dial up.

THE EVIDENCE IS ALREADY CLEAR.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can't you just enjoy this free game?

I'd enjoy it more if it was even harder for warriors to get yellow/red con mobs off of enchanters.