Shamwowi's Shaman Race Guide

[whippetofspades]

Imagine being so incapable of accepting you made the wrong choice that you go and do this

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by whippetofspades [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imagine being so incapable of accepting you made the wrong choice that you go and do this

Yes, I spent hours compiling information and making videos to help other players. Race has no major affect on a Shaman, which I mention at the top of the guide. This is for players who want the straight facts on which racial benefits are the best, without relying on people making claims without evidence.

[Skarne]

Yeah dude great guide, thanks.

[Maschenny]

Enjoyed reading the guide and surprisingly learned some stuff i didn't know. Thank you.

[greenspectre]

I read the entry from start-to-finish and am very fluent with the Troll v Ogre arguments, and I want to say thank you Shamwowi. I feel the page does due diligence to Trolls by applying the math of their additional regen benefits in the same situations you ran videos of with the Ogre, and explaining how those benefits would play out. You clearly put a lot of work into this guide, and I'm hoping it serves as a signpost for min/maxers interested in the shaman class.

Ultimately there will always be some amount of subjectivity when it comes to shamans picking race, but I think your guide was as unbiased as possible whenever possible. There are corner cases where literally any race would be at a disadvantage versus the one chosen, but your guide tries to quantify how often those situations are likely to come up.

At the end of the day, play what you want. I made a barb and don't regret my decision in the least. Travel is easy and seamless, I've been able to do some quests that my faction assisted me in, can sell in Grobb thanks to faction work and will be able to bank there once I'm not lazy anymore and get my guard faction up, and I enjoy the look of my character. Plus the newbie game in the Qeynos area was a first time for me, and it was completely the tits. I look sweet as fuck as I plate out my toon with Totemic and Rune Etched, and still being able to move around in places like Mistmoore and CT where I can't shrink was also nice QoL. But I'm not out to min/max- just enjoy playing a new class and i'll min/max when I make my monk in Kunark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ptull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for taking the time to post the wiki. Interesting information. +1

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Skarne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah dude great guide, thanks.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Maschenny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enjoyed reading the guide and surprisingly learned some stuff i didn't know. Thank you.

Thanks! Glad I could help.

Originally Posted by greenspectre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I read the entry from start-to-finish and am very fluent with the Troll v Ogre arguments, and I want to say thank you Shamwowi. I feel the page does due diligence to Trolls by applying the math of their additional regen benefits in the same situations you ran videos of with the Ogre, and explaining how those benefits would play out. You clearly put a lot of work into this guide, and I'm hoping it serves as a signpost for min/maxers interested in the shaman class.

Ultimately there will always be some amount of subjectivity when it comes to shamans picking race, but I think your guide was as unbiased as possible whenever possible. There are corner cases where literally any race would be at a disadvantage versus the one chosen, but your guide tries to quantify how often those situations are likely to come up.

At the end of the day, play what you want. I made a barb and don't regret my decision in the least. Travel is easy and seamless, I've been able to do some quests that my faction assisted me in, can sell in Grobb thanks to faction work and will be able to bank there once I'm not lazy anymore and get my guard faction up, and I enjoy the look of my character. Plus the newbie game in the Qeynos area was a first time for me, and it was completely the tits. I look sweet as fuck as I plate out my toon with Totemic and Rune Etched, and still being able to move around in places like Mistmoore and CT where I can't shrink was also nice QoL. But I'm not out to min/max- just enjoy playing a new class and i'll min/max when I make my monk in Kunark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for that[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Completely agree here, this guide isn't for everyone. Some people prefer fashion, faster leveling, etc. I simply want people to have the information at hand for each racial, so they can make the best decision when rolling Shaman. Some people prefer Min/Maxing, which is mostly who this guide is aimed at.

Originally Posted by isoka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, that s a lot of work put into this, but i must reckon it is very solo oriented. Regen shines in groups (where a shaman actually sits also) while stun immunity is very poor in this context.

I like how people tend to minimize troll and iksar regeneration while whatever the race, everyone goes fap fap when they get regeneration / chloroplast / regrowth, not to mention ceremonial iksar chestplate or fungi tunic.
The regen is an insane boost during the leveling life of a shaman, just admit it.

Once you hit 60 and put your hands on torpor, there is no real true winner. Any race will be overpowered and any race can solo what you have shown on your videos.

So the real deal is : will you group during your journey to 60? If yes, go barbarian if faction matters for you. Go iksar or troll otherwise for the regen which will shine when you do some canni dancing.
Nothing more exciting than leveling with a group of 5 melees while you do all the buffing and healing.

If you want to solo your way to 60, ogres can be interesting due to their ability to click jbb without getting many interrupts when root breaks.

Also, this poll speaks by itself. More % of ogres would reroll shaman than trolls would reroll ogres.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...+shaman+reroll

You should read the guide a bit more carefully.

I mentioned multiple times in the guide Troll/Iksar Regeneration is the best racial Pre-Torpor. I also mention that no racial is a game changer in the end. I never denied either of these things, and that is why a lot of people prefer Trolls. Much of the game is spent leveling to 60, so people want the best bonus during that time.

This guide is aimed at showing the racial benefits POST-TORPOR. This is because some people who like to Min/Max do not mind having a longer leveling process. They want to know which race is the best after their character is complete. Troll/Iksar Regeneration and Barbarian XP Bonuses become significantly less useful when you become a Torpor Shaman. This is why Ogre FSI ends up winning when your character is complete.

As a Torpor Shaman, I rarely use Regrowth and Fungi Tunic. Chestplate of Vindication has better overall damage mitigation, and Regrowth is often a waste of a buff slot. I still use it sometimes, but it is not a requirement in any fight.

I also disagree about FSI being less useful in group situations. I am often getting hit in duo/group situations. Slows generate a lot of agro, bad pulls happen, and off tanking can be necessary.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also disagree about FSI being less useful in group situations. I am often getting hit in duo/group situations. Slows generate a lot of agro, bad pulls happen, and off tanking can be necessary.

This sounds like you group with some poor tanks. I'm not going to do what you might expect and pull the elitist "only group with quality players" card. I'm a fan of making do with what you have. Having to make less-than-stellar groups work is a valid enough reason to appreciate having the Ogre racial. Heck, there are entire classes (hello, Paladin) that are at their best as the rest of the group performs worse. That being said, it's hard to argue that bash resistance isn't vastly more situational for groupers than it is in solo situations. With a quality tank around a Shaman will only rarely be hit, or sometimes not at all during an entire gameplay session. The Ogre racial becomes worthless in such situations.

The correct argument, I think, is that racials are even less important to a grouping level 60 than they are for the soloist (and you already admit they're not a big deal for the soloist) so you might just as well min-max for the solo aspect of the class where it might offer some small bonus. I don't know that I'd agree with that argument in all cases, but it'd apply to enough players for the purpose of your guide with the caveat that individual players should always consider their own specific needs first and no guide can be all things to all people.

------------------------------------

My only notable critique of the guide itself is that the title could perhaps be altered to something like "Shamwowi's Shaman Race Guide for min-maxers" to better convey its purpose.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

First off, thank you for the post!

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This sounds like you group with some poor tanks. I'm not going to do what you might expect and pull the elitist "only group with quality players" card. I'm a fan of making do with what you have. Having to make less-than-stellar groups work is a valid enough reason to appreciate having the Ogre racial. Heck, there are entire classes (hello, Paladin) that are at their best as the rest of the group performs worse.

Maybe I should clarify this a bit more, possibly in the guide as well. Even with a good tank, Torpor Shamans often take two responsibilities in groups: Slowing and Healing. From my experience, this puts me high on most mob's hate lists most of the time. Even with an experienced tank, it can be tough to keep up agro on multiple mobs when a Shaman needs to slow and heal. Doing 6+ Dragons is a great example here. I am usually on Rampage, even in a group of 6, due to slowing and healing. Torpor's range requires me to be in Rampage distance, so I am taking hits in the fight. I don't believe Bashes happen on rampage (I am usually not paying attention to that), so FSI probably doesn't apply to rampage hits. However, because I am second on the hate list, it isn't a large leap for the mob to occasionally turn to me, especially if I get a string of Slow resists and have to spam it. That is when FSI can still be useful. Also, I sometimes pull as a Shaman if there is no need to do crazy pulling shenanigans, because I am already going to be high on the hate list initially, when trying to land a slow.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That being said, it's hard to argue that bash resistance isn't vastly more situational for groupers than it is in solo situations. With a quality tank around a Shaman will only rarely be hit, or sometimes not at all during an entire gameplay session. The Ogre racial becomes worthless in such situations.

I 100% agree here. I hope my guide didn't come across as FSI being amazing in group or raid situations. I was simply trying to show all situations in which the racials can benefit you. This is because some people like to claim FSI is never used in group or raid situations. That is obviously false, even if it is used less often. I did the same thing with all the other racials, in an attempt to strong man each one.

Again, maybe I should clarify this a bit more, but all racials tend to become largely useless in group and raid situations, especially when the group or raid is doing well. This includes Troll/Iksar Regeneration. If you are in a group that is destroying stuff, you are Regenerating even less than in solo situations. You can see how marginal the gains are for Troll/Iksar Regeneration in the solo experiences in my guide. Even if you are spamming high cost spells non stop, you can see how much mana is spent in 13 minutes in my Raid buffing example. I don't think I have ever spent more mana than that in a 13 minute period grouping. You still only save roughly 30 seconds of self healing in the end, which is basically useless in a group or raid situation anyway.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The correct argument, I think, is that racials are even less important to a grouping level 60 than they are for the soloist (and you already admit they're not a big deal for the soloist) so you might just as well min-max for the solo aspect of the class where it might offer some small bonus. I don't know that I'd agree with that argument in all cases, but it'd apply to enough players for the purpose of your guide with the caveat that individual players should always consider their own specific needs first and no guide can be all things to all people.

I 100% agree here, and I can probably clarify that. And yes, no one guide is everything. I just know that all of these benefits can be quantified, and I haven't really seen anybody do that before. So hopefully my guide can provide clarity through real examples. Obviously EQ has a lot of situations, and you could always point to a very specific case and say x racial saved you there. But the idea of the "overall best race" is to determine which ability in general will give you the best bang for your buck, with the knowledge that sometimes other racials could have been better in very specific scenarios. It's simply an averages game.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My only notable critique of the guide itself is that the title could perhaps be altered to something like "Shamwowi's Shaman Race Guide for min-maxers" to better convey its purpose.

I was considering that at first. The only reason why I kept the title general is because I do include the other situations in my guide. If you prefer fashion quest, you can skip the guide, and I say that in the Preface. I already have a Pre-Torpor Shaman section, describing why Troll/Iksar Regeneration is best before you get Torpor. I simply didn't think a larger explanation was needed, due to the communities general agreement on this point. If people want, I can certainly break down the racial abilities in the Pre-Torpor situation in a similar manner to Post-Torpor.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Danth]

You don't need to add fashion links (I agree it's not necessary for the purpose of your article), but if you were so inclined you could add a listing of the different bear colors used by Form of the Great Bear. It's already on the page for the spell, granted, but putting answers for questions people frequently ask in a one-stop-shop article never hurts.


Danth

[isoka]

Well, that s a lot of work put into this, but i must reckon it is very solo oriented. Regen shines in groups (where a shaman actually sits also) while stun immunity is very poor in this context.

I like how people tend to minimize troll and iksar regeneration while whatever the race, everyone goes fap fap when they get regeneration / chloroplast / regrowth, not to mention ceremonial iksar chestplate or fungi tunic.
The regen is an insane boost during the leveling life of a shaman, just admit it.

Once you hit 60 and put your hands on torpor, there is no real true winner. Any race will be overpowered and any race can solo what you have shown on your videos.

So the real deal is : will you group during your journey to 60? If yes, go barbarian if faction matters for you. Go iksar or troll otherwise for the regen which will shine when you do some canni dancing.
Nothing more exciting than leveling with a group of 5 melees while you do all the buffing and healing.

If you want to solo your way to 60, ogres can be interesting due to their ability to click jbb without getting many interrupts when root breaks.

Also, this poll speaks by itself. More % of ogres would reroll shaman than trolls would reroll ogres.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...+shaman+reroll