How Did Old School Bards Do It?

[Keebz]

I didn't bard til kunark, but twisting was a thing by then. I regularly twisted using the double tap method. I don't remember the hot bar being super limiting back then, but our expectations were a lot lower. I may have just been using the spell gem hotkeys themselves.

There were a few eq bard sites (eq diva comes to mind) that had good tutorials and articles. If you can find them on the internet archive it may give you some ideas.

[Dolalin]

Twisting was planned from the very beginning. It was integral to the bard class from launch. There are posts about this from the eqbards mailing list in early 1999.

People would generally just twist 2-3 songs and only play one if things got hectic. The idea that you constantly need to twist 4 songs to be an acceptable bard is a powergamer myth.

A bard singing regen song with a lute is giving his entire group fungi tunics.

[Jimjam]

In low level, chilled groups I have a button that will sing 2 songs and press that every 10 seconds while I maybe assist tank.

I’m not going to feel bad about not twisting 4 songs and instrument swapping if the melee aren’t battle bandaging, the casters aren’t casting between med ticks, the pullers aren’t keeping a mob in camp at all times, the dps isn’t always maxed, etc.

It simply isn’t reasonable to expect players to sprint a marathon.

[dtjp1999]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In low level, chilled groups I have a button that will sing 2 songs and press that every 10 seconds while I maybe assist tank.

I’m not going to feel bad about not twisting 4 songs and instrument swapping if the melee aren’t battle bandaging, the casters aren’t casting between med ticks, the pullers aren’t keeping a mob in camp at all times, the dps isn’t always maxed, etc.

It simply isn’t reasonable to expect players to sprint a marathon.

Well, based on this and the post before it, I think my experiences definitely put me in an "overperformance" mindset vis-a-vis what was done in classic. Now it seems the question is will I be able to lower both my expectations and pace of play, and still be happy with it? Guess I'll just have to try and see...

[Seetherrr]

Originally Posted by dtjp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, based on this and the post before it, I think my experiences definitely put me in an "overperformance" mindset vis-a-vis what was done in classic. Now it seems the question is will I be able to lower both my expectations and pace of play, and still be happy with it? Guess I'll just have to try and see...

I think this person is way off base and his comment is an absolute joke. Combat bandaging? Bandages are useless compared to the damage output that a) a player could be putting out and b) the damage output of mobs. Smart players ARE casting between med ticks. A bard playing just 1 or 2 songs is one that would never get invited to another group of mine. There is already a dislike for many bards due to their experience penalty and essentially being "budget" enchanters. Also many bards on this server have a tendency to go afk in groups with a single song up which has hurt further hurt the reputation of bards. Just because one person wants to justify their laziness doesn't mean that's how the class should be played.

As I stated previously, bards are the only class in the game that somewhat requires "mechanical skill" and choosing to play a bard means you are going to have to work harder than others to play the game at an effective level. It might not be fair but that's how it is and if you can't or are unwilling to twist songs then you probably shouldn't be playing a bard.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Seetherrr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think this person is way off base and his comment is an absolute joke. Combat bandaging? Bandages are useless compared to the damage output that a) a player could be putting out and b) the damage output of mobs. Smart players ARE casting between med ticks. A bard playing just 1 or 2 songs is one that would never get invited to another group of mine. There is already a dislike for many bards due to their experience penalty and essentially being "budget" enchanters. Also many bards on this server have a tendency to go afk in groups with a single song up which has hurt further hurt the reputation of bards. Just because one person wants to justify their laziness doesn't mean that's how the class should be played.

As I stated previously, bards are the only class in the game that somewhat requires "mechanical skill" and choosing to play a bard means you are going to have to work harder than others to play the game at an effective level. It might not be fair but that's how it is and if you can't or are unwilling to twist songs then you probably shouldn't be playing a bard.

Okay, apparently you aren't aware but it is possible to bandage and fight at the same time.

At lower level, there is a real diminished return in what the group gets from songs after the second one, and the cost of constantly twisting 4 songs and switching instruments does not pay off for the benefit. It's better to play at a slower but more maintainable pace.

At higher level, bards do have a lot more useful and powerful songs, and I'd hope a bard was spinning at least 3 together most of the time, and certainly during crunch moments. OP: It's helpful to have hotkeys that /stop | /cast # on the same macro to half button presses. I'm sure you could put two songs on each button if you really wanted, but of course that would reduce flexibility.

You may claim smart players catch med ticks, and this is sometimes true, but I can tell you now, my own observations, is most people don't catch med ticks 100% of the time. Even if they do, they aren't standing to throw in a couple of melee swings between ticks.

This is my point - there is an expectation among players that bards cycle 4 songs, switching instruments, and yet no other class is expected to play at 100% 100% of the time, despite all the other class being, as you say, less involved.

[Seetherrr]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay, apparently you aren't aware but it is possible to bandage and fight at the same time.

You may claim smart players catch med ticks, and this is sometimes true, but I can tell you now, my own observations, is most people don't catch med ticks 100% of the time. Even if they do, they aren't standing to throw in a couple of melee swings between ticks.

This is my point - there is an expectation among players that bards cycle 4 songs, switching instruments, and yet no other class is expected to play at 100% 100% of the time, despite all the other class being, as you say, less involved.

This is really ridiculous. Since you seem to be talking low levels, most players won't have enough bind wound skill to make any meaningful difference and if the mob moves causing the person to bind wound to move then you miss out.

The melee while medding is also ridiculous too because it means you are sitting very close to the mob which means you are more likely to take a hit while sitting and taking 1 round while sitting is worse than even several melee swings. It also raises the chance that you do miss a med tick which is far far worse than the extra damage you could possibly get in as a priest or caster trying to melee

[Guesty07]

Dont worry about it. Play at your own pace, do whatever feels comfortable to you. If that's just playing two songs during combat so be it and if somebody doesn't want to invite you to their future groups thats their call, but you'd have a place at my camp fire.

[Jimjam]

The exact point is it is ridiculous and it is ridiculous to expect similar from a bard.

[Seetherrr]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The exact point is it is ridiculous and it is ridiculous to expect similar from a bard.

The difference is other classes are at 90% to 99% effectiveness without doing that stuff. A bard is at like 50% to 75% effectiveness. Which gets back to the point I was making originally, Bards are not for everyone and require a level of play that is far beyond the requirements of other classes to perform at a level that doesn't make them the worse class to have in a group.