Skill Based PvP vs Random Number Generator Based PvP

[Secrets]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know how anyone could argue a mitigation based resist system for damage only would be bad. It's almost completely impossible to balance a resist system based on avoidance where you either take 0 or lots of damage. With mitigation based, you can pretty easily cap it so it's not possible for casters to become useless. All the casters voting against this are going to wind up useless in guild vs guild PvP against raid buffed opponents then cry about it, just watch.

Classic did have partial resists, which were mitigation based. Can't we have a RNG factor, a hit or miss, and a mitigation system all rolled into one? That would be the best option rather than "LOL MY IDEA IS BETTER"

[Koota]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want everything to be 100% classic, that's fine with me. Just post a warning message not to play any other caster besides a wizard or necro.

I doubt they have data to replicate that resist system though. Might be some sullon zek parses on the internet somewhere.

Let's assume they are not able to get that data, then what? It won't be classic no matter what they do then.

Also, the only person who I have seen working on a resist system for this server is Null, and guess what, it's not classic whatsoever, it's one of those "whirl till you hurl" resist systems.

So in response to your 3 word post, welcome to what appears to be "non-classic" so far.

Well, allow me to educate you, since you are in fact, new here.


The development team for "Project 1999" does their best, through evidence, to replicate how it was during classic era. This holds true to nerf time lines, and things of the like. (Exploits obviously are nipped in the bud regardless of time line circa 99'.)

What this means is although it's not 100% classic, it's as close as they can possibly get it. So regardless if they can get the data or not, assuming they are going to make it PROJECT1999 PVP, it's pretty damn safe to say, they are going to follow suit of how they did here.

So regardless of how a developer is not making something classic, again, if its holding true to the Project1999 vibe, your poles of how you -oh so badly- want to make casters less viable during the classic era, when they were quite the opposite, are in vain.

Hate to say it, as much as you obviously can't understand it from all of your posts, and recollection on TZVZ, this server (assuming it will even be created) isn't TZVZ.

[Crazycloud]

My reason on why VZTZ was horrible (balance wise) is cause resist system was just garbage.

I would run bard song with 300 + MR and get snared/rooted/mezzed/stunned you name it. Meanwhile druids nukes were resisting so easy. It should be the other way around. Nukes land but its harder to land those overpowered spells.

During classic/kunark all you needed really was 80-100 MR and you wouldn't be snared/rooted/stuned/mezzed so easily. My bard had 3x that and was still being controlled. Another problem i had was with the Hitbot... it was WAY to huge on live you had to stand right in front of the person to hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE8UNVmVE_s

Look how far my enchanter is and hes still hitting my paladin LOL. This made jousting take no skill. Anyone dueling each other was like a toss up.

Another problem i had was the delay on turning attack on while jousting. It seemed off compare to live. Also when you cast a spell and leave attack on it shouldn't act like your still attacking your target and once the spell is off you should be able to hit right away.

[Knuckle]

Null has an awesome tool he's testing to tweak resists, patience newblets.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Crazycloud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My reason on why VZTZ was horrible (balance wise) is cause resist system was just garbage.

I would run bard song with 300 + MR and get snared/rooted/mezzed/stunned you name it. Meanwhile druids nukes were resisting so easy. It should be the other way around. Nukes land but its harder to land those overpowered spells.

Exactly why I say it was horrible as well. It's annoying as hell to have fights decided entirely by RNG variables. People who could kill 10 people at the same time on Zek where skill actually mattered didn't come to EQ emulator land to get whirl till you hurl'd to death. I just talked to one of the old Darkenbane casters (Darwoth), and he was saying pretty much the same thing about those spells:

"the only resist that had a huge failure rate was magic school spells but since those were all of the roots, snares, mez, fear, charm, blind, gravity flux etc that would shitcan most players in pvp if they landed and were fighting anyone decent i found that acceptable."

Originally Posted by Crazycloud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another problem i had was with the Hitbot... it was WAY to huge on live you had to stand right in front of the person to hit.

It was actually the exact opposite after you quit. There was some kind of sync issue or hitbox issue where you couldn't even hit people from behind and had to literally be in front of them to hit even with a 50ping.

Originally Posted by Knuckle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Null has an awesome tool he's testing to tweak resists, patience newblets.

It's a good tool, I used it and don't have anything against Null, but he is one of the "dark forces" attempting to create full blown RNG based PvP where the winner or loser of a fight is solely determined by things mentioned in the original post which did not occur on EQ live.

[redghosthunter]

Ok... so many issues to comment on... Ill take my arguments from Fictional Reading--- Lore, Salvatore-Tolken-Weis-Hickman-D&D masters guides, etc

1. Purely Resist Based - saves
a. Magic items always work to save vs. . If you have a item that absorbs/wards attacks it just protects you. So high resists should give you no dmg. Low resists, ya better hope for a good roll.

Hope and pray that there are no dice hacks for the rolls [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Hacked dice are not just for rolls for equipment.

2. Avoidance should help vs. bolts-cones. Its a no brainer-- Figher jumps to the side as a lighting bolt streaks by. However Mind Magic, AE spells and others should have no avoidance. If target is in range then make your save or suffer the effects. Such as hold person/monster (root,mez) , etc

3. LoSight- if ya casting a bolt it will not go threw objects. I like moving behind a wall or standing behind a mob and defeating a cast. It is just realistic gameplay.

4. Hit Box- Should be small. Yes ya need to be in range (ARMs length,) to slash the target, or worse actually behind or to the side of the target to land a BS.

[redghosthunter]

Originally Posted by Crazycloud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My reason on why VZTZ was horrible (balance wise) is cause resist system was just garbage.

I would run bard song with 300 + MR and get snared/rooted/mezzed/stunned you name it. Meanwhile druids nukes were resisting so easy. It should be the other way around. Nukes land but its harder to land those overpowered spells.



During classic/kunark all you needed really was 80-100 MR and you wouldn't be snared/rooted/stuned/mezzed so easily. My bard had 3x that and was still being controlled. Another problem i had was with the Hitbot... it was WAY to huge on live you had to stand right in front of the person to hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE8UNVmVE_s

Look how far my enchanter is and hes still hitting my paladin LOL. This made jousting take no skill. Anyone dueling each other was like a toss up.

Another problem i had was the delay on turning attack on while jousting. It seemed off compare to live. Also when you cast a spell and leave attack on it shouldn't act like your still attacking your target and once the spell is off you should be able to hit right away.

Crazy,

You have some good points. What i dont agree with is - OP spells. Im not arguing the point that your 300 resists. With resists that high you should have almost total protection. My disagreement is that when a spell lands.... It should not no effect you ??? So if i was a caster and finally... finally i got a spell threw that 300 resists it should not root ya? or do damage? Hell with resists that high a caster might not land any spell. Seems like a Trade off... balance dont ya think---- for the trade you get for all that resistance--- is BRD dps blows. THERE IT IS- balance. Seems like nothing is wrong with the out of the box system.

Let me say it again... With your 300 resists, chances are you will should not see any spells get threw. ON THE FLIP side, BRD Dps aint great. Thats Balance. Cast-Cast-Cast, nothing getting threw you are owning the caster with all that resist. But finally one spell gets threw and you say... no the caster spells are OPed ?

[redghosthunter]

Originally Posted by Koota [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, allow me to educate you, since you are in fact, new here.


The development team for "Project 1999" does their best, through evidence, to replicate how it was during classic era. This holds true to nerf time lines, and things of the like. (Exploits obviously are nipped in the bud regardless of time line circa 99'.)

What this means is although it's not 100% classic, it's as close as they can possibly get it. So regardless if they can get the data or not, assuming they are going to make it PROJECT1999 PVP, it's pretty damn safe to say, they are going to follow suit of how they did here.

So regardless of how a developer is not making something classic, again, if its holding true to the Project1999 vibe, your poles of how you -oh so badly- want to make casters less viable during the classic era, when they were quite the opposite, are in vain.

Hate to say it, as much as you obviously can't understand it from all of your posts, and recollection on TZVZ, this server (assuming it will even be created) isn't TZVZ.

I applaud the staff on the creation of a original and now kunark game. The game is -- more challenging then it used to be.

1. There is no way you can say that-- AE nurfs are classic. The AE Area Effect spells, in the game WAS Area. AE spells WAS not up to 4 mobs. You have no leg to stand on.

TODAY- the version we are running is not out of the box.

2. There is no way you can say that
a. the lvl of resists server wide are classic. The lvl of resists server wide are high. Getting 2 and 3 resists on Blue Trash mobs- commonly--- just didnt happen.

TODAY- the version we are running is not out of the box.

b. In addition, Mobs now are smart mobs- roaming around casting resistance on non casters... such as in dungeons ie LGuk, Paw etc. This didnt happen.

TODAY- the version we are running is not out of the box.

3. Healing Mobs. We have what i call- Healer Merc Mobs. Ever attack a healer merc on live? (pvp.) Very difficult to kill.

TODAY- the version we are running is not out of the box.

A original experience is more then lvl 50, with lvl 50 spell set, lvl 50 mobs or slightly above, its mechanics. Mechanics are whats going on behind the scene.

4. Agro pet class. Ive played EQ live for years. Ive played EMU for years. Answer me this if you say the PET Agro TODAY, is Classic.

Why was a rule added that a caster had to do 1 pt of damage to the target OR the caster got NO exp ? Casters used to sick pets and med threw fight.

TODAY if you sit for a second you get HATE. Its not Classic. Go ahead and do a search.....

This is "project" 1999, im very happy with it. Ive had a lot of fun. But Change is called- Balance here. This is not out of the box classic, its Project 1999.

[Crazycloud]

Originally Posted by redghosthunter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Crazy,

You have some good points. What i dont agree with is - OP spells. Im not arguing the point that your 300 resists. With resists that high you should have almost total protection. My disagreement is that when a spell lands.... It should not no effect you ??? So if i was a caster and finally... finally i got a spell threw that 300 resists it should not root ya? or do damage? Hell with resists that high a caster might not land any spell. Seems like a Trade off... balance dont ya think---- for the trade you get for all that resistance--- is BRD dps blows. THERE IT IS- balance. Seems like nothing is wrong with the out of the box system.

Let me say it again... With your 300 resists, chances are you will should not see any spells get threw. ON THE FLIP side, BRD Dps aint great. Thats Balance. Cast-Cast-Cast, nothing getting threw you are owning the caster with all that resist. But finally one spell gets threw and you say... no the caster spells are OPed ?

I think you read me wrong. When a stun/root/snare did land during that time IT lasted full duration (snares used to last 15mins in pvp and there was a chance when a nuke landed the snare effect could come off). My problem was it was landing TOO much with 300 resists i mean way too much. Having 80-100 MR used to resist root/snare so easy. But once you had that enchanter tash or or shaman malo you man u better cure or dispel quick or you were TOAST!!!. You really didn't need a enchanter or shaman to tash/malo anyone on VZTZ to land spells, you just cast stun and it landed 60-70 % of the time. It made those 2 classes not needed in pvp, it was just a melee game.

Basically you should resist spells 95 % of the time (mainly the OP spells like whirl/snare/root/stuns) with 200 + mr. But if it did land 1 time out of 20+ or 30+ spell casts then I'm one not to complain.

Back in the days there was more skill involved in EQ. More jousting and less casting of snare/root (unless you had a shaman/enchanter with you). On VZTZ everyone spams the EZ spells. Roll with a group cast stun steam roll 1 person who had zero chance of escaping unless he gets a lucky gate off.


VZTZ all loots were also easy to attain so everyone already had high resists... THIS IS p99!!! shit will be rare! and exp will be slow! so if you earn 100 + resists on all your resist stats man you earn your bragging rights.

[redghosthunter]

Originally Posted by Crazycloud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you read me wrong. When a stun/root/snare did land during that time IT lasted full duration (snares used to last 15mins in pvp and there was a chance when a nuke landed the snare effect could come off). My problem was it was landing TOO much with 300 resists i mean way too much. Having 80-100 MR used to resist root/snare so easy. But once you had that enchanter tash or or shaman malo you man u better cure or dispel quick or you were TOAST!!!. You really didn't need a enchanter or shaman to tash/malo anyone on VZTZ to land spells, you just cast stun and it landed 60-70 % of the time. It made those 2 classes not needed in pvp, it was just a melee game.

Basically you should resist spells 95 % of the time (mainly the OP spells like whirl/snare/root/stuns) with 200 + mr. But if it did land 1 time out of 20+ or 30+ spell casts then I'm one not to complain.

Back in the days there was more skill involved in EQ. More jousting and less casting of snare/root (unless you had a shaman/enchanter with you). On VZTZ everyone spams the EZ spells. Roll with a group cast stun steam roll 1 person who had zero chance of escaping unless he gets a lucky gate off.


VZTZ all loots were also easy to attain so everyone already had high resists... THIS IS p99!!! shit will be rare! and exp will be slow! so if you earn 100 + resists on all your resist stats man you earn your bragging rights.

/nod