Mages in classic

[Jadian]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't y'all kill and recast pets in there somewhere, for the XP?

Might be a bigger part of the strat these days or when killing bigger mobs. I don't think pet chaining was part of my moves until after I got the phinny staff. I didn't keep up all that much with pet exp changes but I think that was still when you got 90% or something, I haven't played my mage in years (something you're likely to hear from a lot of early mage mains)

[oqrelord]

Ahh, that's dispelled any assumptions I had about classic mage... enchanter it is!

[Snagglepuss]

Mages are incredibly OP in vanilla relative to other classes. Once focused, the pet is a beast. Low mob hp coupled with low ac makes mages (and necros) very strong. Fire pet just wrecks. In Kunark, mob hp and ac scaled up and mages were in a sense nerfed. Post 49 pets didn't really hold up as well either (until epic).

As others have mentioned, melee classes have poor itemization whereas mages aren't as gear dependent. A few mages could seriously rush some early content.

[Deathrydar]

Originally Posted by Snagglepuss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mages are incredibly OP in vanilla relative to other classes. Once focused, the pet is a beast. Low mob hp coupled with low ac makes mages (and necros) very strong. Fire pet just wrecks. In Kunark, mob hp and ac scaled up and mages were in a sense nerfed. Post 49 pets didn't really hold up as well either (until epic).

As others have mentioned, melee classes have poor itemization whereas mages aren't as gear dependent. A few mages could seriously rush some early content.

I am getting that they aren't as powerful after vanilla, but are they still wanted in groups and can they still solo in Kun and Vel?

[Videri]

Originally Posted by Deathrydar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is wrong with their gameplay?

In my opinion, the toughest thing about mage gameplay is that they don't have built-in splitting techniques. If you are at a camp with two mobs close to each other, and you can kill one mob but not two at the same time, you can't do the camp.

There are strategies to get around this. One that might work is nuking one mob dead asap then zoning off the other mob, waiting for it to leave, zoning back in and returning to the camp, medding up, resummoning pet, then killing the other mob before the first mob respawns.

If a tactic like that is not possible for whatever reason, you'd need help to break certain camps.

Originally Posted by Deathrydar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am getting that they aren't as powerful after vanilla, but are they still wanted in groups and can they still solo in Kun and Vel?

They are always wanted in groups as they contribute great sustained damage through their pet, nukes, and damage shield.

Furthermore, mages are always valuable once they get Call of the Hero at 55. Even if you never play your mage again, you can still get value from it if you park it in a location your guild would want to COTH to. For instance, a guild may park a mage at Poop Mountain in Sebilis, right around the corner from Trakanon. Then, once a group is formed that includes the mage on Poop Mountain and someone at entrance, you can summon a whole raid (one at a time) from entrance to the mage so the guild can kill Trakanon without having to fight all the way down through Sebilis for like an hour.

[Jadian]

Originally Posted by Videri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my opinion, the toughest thing about mage gameplay is that they don't have built-in splitting techniques. If you are at a camp with two mobs close to each other, and you can kill one mob but not two at the same time, you can't do the camp.

There are strategies to get around this. One that might work is nuking one mob dead asap then zoning off the other mob, waiting for it to leave, zoning back in and returning to the camp, medding up, resummoning pet, then killing the other mob before the first mob respawns.

If a tactic like that is not possible for whatever reason, you'd need help to break certain camps.



They are always wanted in groups as they contribute great sustained damage through their pet, nukes, and damage shield.

Furthermore, mages are always valuable once they get Call of the Hero at 55. Even if you never play your mage again, you can still get value from it if you park it in a location your guild would want to COTH to. For instance, a guild may park a mage at Poop Mountain in Sebilis, right around the corner from Trakanon. Then, once a group is formed that includes the mage on Poop Mountain and someone at entrance, you can summon a whole raid (one at a time) from entrance to the mage so the guild can kill Trakanon without having to fight all the way down through Sebilis for like an hour.

All truth

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Videri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my opinion, the toughest thing about mage gameplay is that they don't have built-in splitting techniques. If you are at a camp with two mobs close to each other, and you can kill one mob but not two at the same time, you can't do the camp.

There are strategies to get around this. One that might work is nuking one mob dead asap then zoning off the other mob, waiting for it to leave, zoning back in and returning to the camp, medding up, resummoning pet, then killing the other mob before the first mob respawns.

If a tactic like that is not possible for whatever reason, you'd need help to break certain camps

You forgot option #3: root nets! Those things are like essential equipment for mages (and boy is that ice goblin going to be camped on Green ...)

[Videri]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You forgot option #3: root nets! Those things are like essential equipment for mages (and boy is that ice goblin going to be camped on Green ...)

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ohhhhhhhhh I didn't think of that! Rechargeable and not lore, too.

And on that note, actually, it might be possible to use an Earth pet and back it off after it roots one mob. But one wonders how much damage it would have taken, yada yada...might work sometimes.

[Vyal]

Originally Posted by Deathrydar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am getting that they aren't as powerful after vanilla, but are they still wanted in groups and can they still solo in Kun and Vel?

Mages become even more powerful after Kunark.
However you should understand one thing and that is the odds are very high mages here will end up being castrated at some point much like bards were.
There are many tricks to mages using CoH and if those tricks get used by many mages I would expect them to put time limits on the spell like it can only be used once every 5 minutes or something "for the spirit of the game" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And the mage epic pet is an absolute monster imagine Vel ain't coming out for years but you got that epic mage pet. You can pretty much camp GEBs and let the pet solo everything but of course there is probably some weird rule that says it ain't "in the spirit of the game" to do that and therefore you won't be able to camp an item over and over again. There's a bunch of lists and once you get the drop you've got to give up the camp for the next guy on the list or something.

As for OP
Mages are beasts during the start if you know all the right spots to level you'll be able to hit 30 in less then a week and be down to sit on the evil eye spawn.

From maybe 20 - 30 you could sit in Qeynos Hills and kill the Millers and with the lists the way they are just as soon as you go into the zone claim the Pyzjn camp and if the GBS drops well it's all yours. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Then head off to lower guk get your Manastone because LISTS and the rest is incredibly easy you could just kill guards to 50 or so and make tons of plat selling the weapons.
Then you've got your first character done who can do just about anything and is incredibly easy to play and it's time to go make a monk or necro.
Then cleric and then druid.

Don't waste time on a bard that class has been castrated which is probably going to happen to any class that has the ability to level fast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by Vyal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mages become even more powerful after Kunark.
However you should understand one thing and that is the odds are very high mages here will end up being castrated at some point much like bards were.
There are many tricks to mages using CoH and if those tricks get used by many mages I would expect them to put time limits on the spell like it can only be used once every 5 minutes or something "for the spirit of the game" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And the mage epic pet is an absolute monster imagine Vel ain't coming out for years but you got that epic mage pet. You can pretty much camp GEBs and let the pet solo everything but of course there is probably some weird rule that says it ain't "in the spirit of the game" to do that and therefore you won't be able to camp an item over and over again. There's a bunch of lists and once you get the drop you've got to give up the camp for the next guy on the list or something.

As for OP
Mages are beasts during the start if you know all the right spots to level you'll be able to hit 30 in less then a week and be down to sit on the evil eye spawn.

From maybe 20 - 30 you could sit in Qeynos Hills and kill the Millers and with the lists the way they are just as soon as you go into the zone claim the Pyzjn camp and if the GBS drops well it's all yours. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Then head off to lower guk get your Manastone because LISTS and the rest is incredibly easy you could just kill guards to 50 or so and make tons of plat selling the weapons.
Then you've got your first character done who can do just about anything and is incredibly easy to play and it's time to go make a monk or necro.
Then cleric and then druid.

Don't waste time on a bard that class has been castrated which is probably going to happen to any class that has the ability to level fast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The butthurt in your post is palpable.


AoE's weren't nerfed 'just cause', there was evidence that it was accurate for the era, as you well know from your pages long cryfest of a thread. Speculating that anyone that can solo a valuable camp is getting nerfed is childish and unrealistic.