Mage vs necro; my experience

[Troxx]

I don't feel I understated necros. Overall grade for necro and ability to make/break group was rated way higher. In a well balanced group necros just lack the same umph. In a group lacking in any way, necros can easily rise the demi-god status.

[Bristlebaner]

What would you say the gap is between 59 necro pet and 57 earth?

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Bristlebaner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would you say the gap is between 59 necro pet and 57 earth?

Dpswise earth pet should win out slightly, but the tanking difference will be night and day. Earth pet caps out at 1 level higher as well. Unless you can get the necro focus item, that should make them basically even in dps.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Bristlebaner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would you say the gap is between 59 necro pet and 57 earth?

Max EoT is 1 level lower with a max hit of 61
57 Earth is 1 level higher and a max hit of 70

That's not slightly different; that's big.

Most of the dps comes from autoattack which is 13% higher for earth pet. Being one level higher it will also hit higher more consistently and miss less frequently. My experience is earth pet is a good 15-20% or more higher base dps, more for the earth pet assuming mage pet has summon haste mask and EoT does not. Biggest frustration is that resummoning EoT is 10p per try while a malachite is what ... 2 copper? With mage I always roll with max pet. At a peridot per try it's generally best to stop with 'good enough' though sometimes you luck out with a max. Earth pet is a lot more durable even though it only has 500 more hp than max EoT.

Superior mage dps comes from superior pet dps. Mage nukes are more efficient but lich regen actually lets necro actually put out more raw (or more or less even dps if mage has c2) DD dmg over time with touch of night.

For both classes the lion's share of damage dealt over time boils down to the pet; not the caster.

[NegaStoat]

If you're willing to go the distance to reach 60 and get the Water focus staff off of Phinny, which honestly isn't that hard in the big scheme of things... The level 60 water pet is doing 2 less max damage per pass in comparison to the best earth pet, but doesn't cast root with the 240 backstab going off as well. And with the staff, it's beefy as hell.

Been there, done that on retail. It was a real crowd pleaser since the Epic was locked down on Fennin Ro by top guilds during the time I played. On the retail server I compared the best water summon focused with the staff versus an EoT and the emissary tried hard but fell wayyyy short. Sadly, I think P1999 kneecapped the EoT from how it performed on Retail in overall hit % so Mages look even better here because of it. Actually, thinking it over, the Water pet was 1 level higher than the EoT I tested against and I recall that while we both had the same pet haste % of 65 from our spells, I had the muzzle for 11% more on top of that. It only makes sense the EoT lost out hard, and I might be mistaken about P1999 nerfing the EoT. All that said though, the Necro can still charm in zones that allow it, and that is a game changer for sure.

[Canelek]

I forget how it was on live, but on P99, you would get 100% experience regardless of pet % damage until it was patched to its current state. I'm sure someone here can cite when that patch occurred.

[Zuranthium]

Previously on p99, you had to do 1 point of damage or else the pet would take 75% exp (is what people told me when started here). That's the change that went in for Luclin era, so it makes sense p99 had that coding, until they fixed it to classic-era. The p99 change happened October 23rd 2011.

[Raev]

I definitely agree that Magicians are underrated here. I would guess that a BIS mage (epic, velketor boots) beats a BIS rogue for damage as long as resists aren't too bad!

Your 'in a balanced group, necromancers aren't that great' is somewhat tautological, though. After all, the same argument holds for Warriors or Clerics. For a necro to be effective, they have to be either charming, pulling, or healing. In my experience my Necromancer is surprisingly effective in undead dungeons in a kind of bard style charm/split/pull pseudo soloing role. You can kind of imagine how it works. It takes a bit of time for groups to figure it out, as practically no one plays this way.

That being said, going LFG on a Necromancer is brutal. The only tells I get are people saying they'd rather keep LFG than play with me! In the end Necros really need Luclin: Mind Wrack, Zevfeer's Theft, dot stacking, focus items, etc. It will never happen, but I think back porting the focus effects and adding the Blessed Coldain Prayer Shawl would really help balance late Velious.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your 'in a balanced group, necromancers aren't that great' is somewhat tautological, though. After all, the same argument holds for Warriors or Clerics.

Yeah, I had this sort of thing in my head too.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't feel I understated necros. Overall grade for necro and ability to make/break group was rated way higher. In a well balanced group necros just lack the same umph. In a group lacking in any way, necros can easily rise the demi-god status.

That's fair I guess. I think we just have different emphases on p99. You compare these classes based on full groups, considering "odd" groups to be the exception not the norm. I consider them in the context that a lot of players spend a lot of time solo, duo, trio, or in "imperfect" full groups, or in well-balanced groups but where SHTF sometimes still in ways the necro can help with but the mage can't.

Like you said, it's your experience with them, so that's fine. I just had a hard time believing that your experience with each of these classes revolved so totally around full groups. Maybe it's just my bias for smaller content. I probably solod my p99 clerics more than most people solo their chanters and necros... lol

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I had this sort of thing in my head too.




That's fair I guess. I think we just have different emphases on p99. You compare these classes based on full groups, considering "odd" groups to be the exception not the norm. I consider them in the context that a lot of players spend a lot of time solo, duo, trio, or in "imperfect" full groups, or in well-balanced groups but where SHTF sometimes still in ways the necro can help with but the mage can't.

Like you said, it's your experience with them, so that's fine. I just had a hard time believing that your experience with each of these classes revolved so totally around full groups. Maybe it's just my bias for smaller content. I probably solod my p99 clerics more than most people solo their chanters and necros... lol

My experience has been that necros are fantastically overpowered. Most of the groups I have been in have not been full. The other day a warrior, wizard and I crawled down to ABC and downed a few names on nothing but my heals, cc, pulls, and mez. No other class could have managed this so flawlessly other than torpor shaman.

For the standard “I’m lfg” scenario, ironically of the classes I’ve played this is the hardest to land an invite with. When the invite happens it’s usually to a full group where I’m more or less in dps mode. For that singular purpose, unless charming, the real umph is just lacking.

On the flip side I can usually piece together a duo/trio with most anyone.

I look forward to Demi-lich.