Buff Lines Page Done

[Muggens]

Great work, thanks !

[Eveready]

Thanks a lot for the time and effort that went into this!

[Rygar]

Does a single bard song really grant +196 MR with puretone and max instrument modifier? Surprised the isn't a cap on some things.

[Legidias]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does a single bard song really grant +196 MR with puretone and max instrument modifier? Surprised the isn't a cap on some things.

Puretone increases songs by 2.8 (the max value for song modifiers).

At 60, specific resist songs give +70 base, which times 2.8 = 196.

But bard discs have looooong ass cooldowns (over an hour).

The specific resist songs are all singing based, which the only natural modifier is the bard epic which is also one of the toughest epics to get. Without epic, its better to sing a combo song using percussion. It balances out.


(I will mention though that HP regen section is not correct since bards can give at least +50 hp regen with just 2 songs by themselves.)

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(I will mention though that HP regen section is not correct since bards can give at least +50 hp regen with just 2 songs by themselves.)

Unfortunately the Bard page on the wiki doesn't explain the instrument bonus well, so I had to rely on a forum post (one which of course I can't find now). I'm pretty sure it said that haste, regen, and mana regen (and maybe one other thing?) wasn't affected by the instrument bonus.

Is that wrong? Should HP regen be affected?

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does a single bard song really grant +196 MR with puretone and max instrument modifier? Surprised the isn't a cap on some things.

There is a cap on overall MR, which most raid geared players can achieve with flowers and potions. Bards are actually really weak here in comparison to TAKP, where a puretone bard sends you to 500 and makes you immune to most AEs in Kunark.

[ScottBerta]

/clap

[Legidias]

Haste is not, but HP regen definitely is.

I wasn't referring to the instrument bonus though, I meant that hymn of restoration stacks with niv's to grant >50hp / tick regen via just bardsong. (Realistically, at 60 you would be using cantana of replenishment but it has 1 less base hp regen at 60 compared to hymn).

The hp/mana regen songs are a bit complicated. The HP is effected by instrument but the mana regen is not. However, the pure mana songs that are singing based are supposed to be increase via epic / puretone, but IIRC its not working right in p99 or something. Its a debated topic.

(Also, for mana regen, you have the 34 bard song listed instead of the 55 one which has double the mana regen. For max mana regen, bards would sing 1 mana regen + 2 or 3 mana pulse for max. If you want to look at pure 1 tick counts, one cantana + 1 chorus will give +20 mana regen without any instrument bonus. It gets more complicated a calculation as you add in 2 or 3 pulses of chorus and epic/disc modifier.)

It might sound like I'm criticizing the page but I'm not. It must have taken a lot of effort to set the page up and I'm just nitpicking a few things on it that are probably outside your area of expertise. I audit SOP's IRL so its just something I do to look at these types of things. I'm still too lazy to edit it myself lol.

The haste section is also bit off. Jonathan's whistling warsong is not V2 haste (like ervaj songs) and will not stack with enchanter haste (its V1).

The DS is also a bit off. You list +22 in the bottom section but the table above uses +8 value for McVaxius' Rousing Rondo.

ATK section also needs bard epic (+30atk)

Similarly, STR benefits from bard epic and song of the deep seas proc (which is also AC and AGI).

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haste is not, but HP regen definitely is.

Cool; this was actually correct in the page, I was just confused.

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't referring to the instrument bonus though, I meant that hymn of restoration stacks with niv's to grant >50hp / tick regen via just bardsong. (Realistically, at 60 you would be using cantana of replenishment but it has 1 less base hp regen at 60 compared to hymn).

Awesome; Lucy 100% agrees that they stack, so this was just a goof on my part (which I've fixed)

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The hp/mana regen songs are a bit complicated. The HP is effected by instrument but the mana regen is not. However, the pure mana songs that are singing based are supposed to be increase via epic / puretone, but IIRC its not working right in p99 or something. Its a debated topic.

I will leave this between the Bard community and the devs, but I'll happily update the page if I see a patch note about it.

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(Also, for mana regen, you have the 34 bard song listed instead of the 55 one which has double the mana regen. For max mana regen, bards would sing 1 mana regen + 2 or 3 mana pulse for max. If you want to look at pure 1 tick counts, one cantana + 1 chorus will give +20 mana regen without any instrument bonus. It gets more complicated a calculation as you add in 2 or 3 pulses of chorus and epic/disc modifier.)

I'm not sure how but I somehow completely missed Cantata of Replenishment. Fixed.

Incidentally the song was misspelled on the Bard page as "Cantana of Replenishment", so I fixed it; there's my contribution to the Bard community [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The haste section is also bit off. Jonathan's whistling warsong is not V2 haste (like ervaj songs) and will not stack with enchanter haste (its V1).

Lucy actually disagrees with you on this; according to it Jonathan's Whistling Warsong stacks with every other haste except the ones that give AC (eg. Augmentation). So, there's three possibilities: A) SoE changed the stacking on live after the classic era, B) SoE didn't change anything and the devs got the stacking wrong here, or C) you're mistaken.

I really doubt it's C), but just to be safe (before I file a bug and potentially waste dev time) can you please confirm that you've tested that Jonathan's Whistling Warsong and a non-AC granting haste (eg. Celerity or Visions of Grandeur) don't stack?

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The DS is also a bit off. You list +22 in the bottom section but the table above uses +8 value for McVaxius' Rousing Rondo.

Fixed

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ATK section also needs bard epic (+30atk)

Fixed (and added to the Haste and Strength sections too). This really helped up all the maximums, since the bard epic stacks with everything.

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Similarly, STR benefits from bard epic and song of the deep seas proc (which is also AC and AGI).

Added Song of the Deep Seas to AC, Str, Agi and Haste. However, I ran into another disagreement between P99 and Lucy; according to Lucy the haste (well, and the other stats) of Song of the Deep Seas stacks with everything except a couple of buffs that don't exist yet (and three different types of rez sickness).

So again, either P99 or Lucy is probably wrong, not you, but just to be safe can you please confirm that you proc-ed Song of the Deep Seas, then had someone try to cast a haste spell on you, and it didn't stack?

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It might sound like I'm criticizing the page but I'm not. It must have taken a lot of effort to set the page up and I'm just nitpicking a few things on it that are probably outside your area of expertise. I audit SOP's IRL so its just something I do to look at these types of things. I'm still too lazy to edit it myself lol.

Thank you! I am not a bard player (I love the class but my wrists just can't take that kind of punishment), so I'm definitely outside my area of expertise on them. This makes me immensely appreciative of of your feedback. I take it as: it's 100% helpful suggestions, 0% criticism.

[bricke75]

Impressive! Nice work!