Shaman Slowing

[Swish2]

Originally Posted by Darkatar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The slows actually have very obviously different cast times- Anyone that cares to know can easily figure it out by watching the shaman cast.

Maybe people expect less of an enchanter but as mentioned I was getting away with casting languid pace (30% slow, 2.25 sec cast) instead of tepid deeds (50% slow, 3.5 sec cast).

This was only due to not having the researched spell at the time, but the point being as long as people look to be doing their jobs it goes under the radar.

[Muggens]

More than one shaman are called shamen

[Cen]

Originally Posted by Muggens [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More than one shaman are called shamen

Shaman, Shaman, Shamen
Person, Persons, People

[Swish2]

Originally Posted by Muggens [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More than one shaman are called shamen

These are good ^^ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I'll admit it was years down the road for me before I learned that an Enchanters lvl 4 mez should generally be used over the higher lvl mezzes. I was curious if it's the same for shamans slow spells? Is there a low lvl slow that is generally viewed as the "main" slow to use? Or is the best slow for the lvl always the one you want?

The L4 mez is good for recharming, because you don't want your charmed pet out of action for a minute or more. Enchanters are generally short on spell slots, so some figure that they can just use L4 for regular crowd control too. In my humble opinion this is not a great idea; it's hard to lock down multiple/resistant mobs with a 24 second mez. But to each their own.

Back of the envelope math for shamans: Turgur's is 250 mana, and is 17% better than Togor's (ignore Loramin, who is merrily continuing his quest to be wrong about literally everything) which is 175 mana. 75 mana could heal roughly 150 HP. So Turgur's starts to win at about 900 HP of damage taken. If we guesstimate the average L50 NPC at 50 dps, that means fights of 45 seconds or more, which is pretty typical in your 50s. Less than that would mean a very good group.

Another way of looking at it: Turgur's is 17% better than Togor's, but requires 43% more mana. So if you don't have enough mana to hit everything with Turgur's, switching to Togor's is a win.

[Muggens]

Ebeneezer Scrooge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Loke]

Depends on the situation. Duoing with a monk in Sol B or KC basement? I'd probably use 70%. Full group with high dps against lower HP mobs? I might use the 50% slow or no slow at all. I really only break out the 75% solo or on longer fights. For example, duoing with a lower dps class like an SK in velks, 75% might be worth the additional mana.

Part of being a good shaman is getting a feel for mana efficiency. For example, in a duo pre-torpor you want to slow to an extent where you don't really have to heal. With a monk wearing fungi and regrowth in KC basement, 70% should be more than enough, so using the 75% is just wasting mana that could be used on other spells (e.g. less canni time, more JBB). If 70% isn't enough, then it makes sense to bump up to 75% since that is more mana efficient than having to cast a heal.

Basically, tailor your play style and spell selection to the needs of the situation.

[dcrag]

Ya even in the lower levels down ranking is very useful - its better to slow every mob by 30% then every other mob by 50%

[turbosilk]

It's not about so much of the 5% more slow or the 75 more mana than it is that turgurs has a 40% reduction in cast time at 3 sec vs 5. 5 is a crazy long time.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by turbosilk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not about so much of the 5% more slow or the 75 more mana than it is that turgurs has a 40% reduction in cast time at 3 sec vs 5. 5 is a crazy long time.

Yes the cast time difference is crucial.

Also, while there are theoretically situations where using togors would be more ideal, I think it's not usually worth it to worry about. Spell slots are valuable and I don't think it's worth having two slows memmed, and if you usually want to be prepared for the toughest situations that come at you. Slows are some the most mana efficient spells in the game, so that extra 5%, longer duration, and shorter cast time are often worth it. If there are situations where togors would be more efficient, there are often better ways to deal with the situation than with a slow, such as root parking, throwing a heal or two, nuke with jbb, undead fear or snare.

As for lower levels, I haven't really done much of an analysis but it doesn't seem like slows are worth it until maybe level 30? It's been a while since I played or even longer since I leveled the shaman. Slows are not high %'s at low levels, mobs don't hit particularly hard, and they don't last very long either. They scale very well and become much more powerful at higher levels.

I think the only time i would mem togors over turgurs would be i had a very good idea how long the target NPC's would take to die, but if there were any variables in the situation I usually wouldn't.