Rogue maces

[Wickedbane]

Does Back stab work with 1hb?

1hp and 1hs could both constitute as a stab.

1hb would be what a poke? a scratch? a knock? Curtains can’t be a stab

[DinoTriz]

Originally Posted by Wickedbane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does Back stab work with 1hb?

1hp and 1hs could both constitute as a stab.

1hb would be what a poke? a scratch? a knock? Curtains can’t be a stab

Need to have a Piercing weapon in main hand to Backstab.

Would be awesome if you could BS with a 2 hander though. Imagine the damage...

[Swish2]

Big damage weapon = main hand (make it a piercer always)
Good ratio weapon = off hand (as in 9/18 equipped there over 10/44)

[enjchanter]

Originally Posted by Swish2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Big damage weapon = main hand (make it a piercer always)
Good ratio weapon = off hand (as in 9/18 equipped there over 10/44)

One thing I have been curious about is if it gives you more dps fo use say like a shadow rager (8/18) MH but swap in a higher damage piercer only for backstage then swap back immediately.

Based on what I know about melee I would imagine this would definitely be more dps but it's quite alot of micromanagement especially if you're only increasing your dps by like 2 or 3%

I am an amateur at best at melee classes and a fledging rogue at best so I really dont know

The consensus I have found is yes but it's not worth it, but more opinions is nice !

[Cecily]

Shadow Rager is a trash weapon. You're better off with crystalline spider fang (10/22) in terms of ratio and backstab potential.

Faster delay applies your damage bonus more often and is part of the consideration of main hand selection for most melee classes over level 30. Rogues have to consider damage in primary, as your backstab damage scales proportionately. Rogue priorities are generally damage, ratio, and then delay. Most other dual wield melees look for a high ratio with a low delay.

Shadow Rager is a bad weapon on all accounts. Bad damage to delay ratio, extremely low backstab potential, and if you're seriously considering using one you don't even have a damage bonus to benefit from as that starts at level 31+. It's good for push, but even then that's a lv 50+ grouping tactic.

Offhand selection for a rogue is purely ratio. The higher ratio is better. The only exception is that 36% haste swiftblade since the majority of your low level damage will come from mainhand and backstabs.

[enjchanter]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shadow Rager is a trash weapon. You're better off with crystalline spider fang (10/22) in terms of ratio and backstab potential.

Faster delay applies your damage bonus more often and is part of the consideration of main hand selection for most melee classes over level 30. Rogues have to consider damage in primary, as your backstab damage scales proportionately. Rogue priorities are generally damage, ratio, and then delay. Most other dual wield melees look for a high ratio with a low delay.

Shadow Rager is a bad weapon on all accounts. Bad damage to delay ratio, extremely low backstab potential, and if you're seriously considering using one you don't even have a damage bonus to benefit from as that starts at level 31+. It's good for push, but even then that's a lv 50+ grouping tactic.

Offhand selection for a rogue is purely ratio. The higher ratio is better. The only exception is that 36% haste swiftblade since the majority of your low level damage will come from mainhand and backstabs.

Right but I think you missed my question:
Is it worth it go for that fast main hand and swap in a higher damage weapon for the backstab and then swap back ?

Currently the idea is to use 8/18 dagger MH with 10/22 (ish) off hand and then for each backstab, swap in an (11/21) ratio piercer and then after backstab, swap back to the 8/18 weapon. All of this with 36% haste through cof. the past few levels ive tried it that way and just simply main handling the 11/21 spear fulltime and if I'm honest it feels similar.

If I'm being even more honest, it's almost a moot point since next level I will just use ragebringer mh full time and that will replace my cloak of flames

[Raev]

Enjchanter try thinking about it this way: there is really only one variable here, damage. Ratio will generally be proportional to the difficulty of obtaining an item, so you can pick high damage/high delay or low damage/low delay, but not high damage/low delay. Since backstab is more important than the damage bonus, the best choice is the high damage/high delay weapon. This makes all of the fast, low damage TOV weapons pretty worthless, with one little wrinkle: if the target has very high AC most of your backstabs will be for the minimum anyway. This will not happen while leveling, though.

I remember a conversation with Koraf when he was making his Rampage Velious wishlist. He was a little annoyed after he realized that the primary accounted for 80% of all rogue damage. Since the secondary does so little damage, Ragebringer's +ATK is more important than the improved ratio of other Velious weapons. So once you get either a Vulak or Tunare dagger you're basically done.

[DinoTriz]

Shadow Rager is fashionquest.

I used a Serpent's Tooth while my Rogue was leveling, but that was before Velious was out. There are probably more high damage piercing options out there now.

[Legidias]

Technically yes, but unless youre 55+, the MH bonus dmg isnt that significant to use a super low delay MH. Im not sure why you're so se on a trashy shadow rager, when you could use some other high ratio weap in MH (like an exquisite velium weap), swapping in like PoS spear or a 13 dmg piercer on BS. Technically it would be higher DPS if you wanted to micro everything.

Given 8/18 and 11/21, while low levels, the DPS output of the trash ratio 8/18 will be terrible and theres no reason to use it.

Also, 11 dmg is terrible for a BS swap. At least get a crystalline spear to swap in, if thats your goal.

[enjchanter]

I appreciate the advice , like I said, I'm a newb rogue at best but I try to maximize what I can.

I'm not super set on shadow rager it's just currently one of the 3 dps weapons I have atm. I do have ragebringer in my bags and am 1 level from using it. I assume it all kinda becomes null at that point because the attack and 40% haste just beats using anything else I assume. One thing I'd like to mention is that at 46 , a good bit of tov weapons will become available to me, is there any particular weapons that a rogue would really benefit from having barring vyemms fang and vulak dagger ?

The frozen spike and kriez short sword are very interesting to me as potential N/V off hands

I'm not going for anything close to BiS but I'd like to build a solid rogue