Pantheon - anyone been keeping track?

[Squabbles123]

Originally Posted by Hitmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

?

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Its not an exact copy though..."gnomes" and such are not unique to EQ, so thats not enough. They don't use any location names from EQ, so the world is different...so the only things that are "the same" are some the UI elements (which is probably mostly temp placeholders) and the style of MMO.

How is it "the exact same game"?

Seeing as the game's been in development for 2 years and Daybreak is bleeding cash out its asshole...you'd think if they had a case to sue, they'd have done it by now.

So yeah, this lawsuit you speak of will not happen.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Squabbles123 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its not an exact copy though..."gnomes" and such are not unique to EQ, so thats not enough. They don't use any location names from EQ, so the world is different...so the only things that are "the same" are some the UI elements (which is probably mostly temp placeholders) and the style of MMO.

How is it "the exact same game"?

Seeing as the game's been in development for 2 years and Daybreak is bleeding cash out its asshole...you'd think if they had a case to sue, they'd have done it by now.

So yeah, this lawsuit you speak of will not happen.

I don't see a lawsuit either, but I do see what his gripe is about.

I was kind of surprised that there's gnomes, ogres, warriors, all the names we are familiar are being used in Pantheon it seems.

I really hope the game is worth playing, but was a tad disappointed that more creativity was not used with the classes, races, etc.

[Triiz]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You missed his PR tour here, but if you search you can probably find posts from it. The staff even tried to enable some officially-endorsed RMT to support Panetheon's development, but after years and years of drilling in to people's heads that RMT was wrong the reaction from many was ... not positive.

I had no idea about this. The OP was edited, but going by the replies they were raffling xp potions, early Velious access, pre-nerf fungi staffs. I'm surprised Daybreak wasn't all over shutting that shit down.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=137820

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Hitmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Edit- by "exactly the same" I mean same names -same terminology, if you stripped the pantheon name and labeled it EQ Next you wouldn't know the difference.

You have to understand what "IP" means. It can mean trademarks, like say "EverQuest(tm)"; Pantheon definitely isn't using that. It can mean patents, like say "I've discovered an algorithm for sorting characters by race faster" ... but it's unlikely Pantheon is using any patented technology ... or, to be more accurate, they probably are, as is just about any software company on the planet; software patents are a mess. But Pantheon doesn't have to worry about them anymore than any other company their size.

So that leaves copyright. You can copyright works, but you can't copyright ideas. I can copyright this post (in fact, as the author by default I own the copyright on it), and Verant/SOE owns the copyright on their source code. But unless Pantheon literally copies old Verant code there's no copyright violation. And as a programmer I can guarantee they're not doing that, if only because 15+ year old code is nearly worthless.

So yes, you can make an exact copy of a game if you want, as long as you don't use their trademarked names, copyrighted images or source code, or violate any patents. And people have done exactly that: just look at the app store on your phone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Or, more recently, some guy made a Zelda fan game, and Nintendo came down hard on him. He's still planning to release (basically) the exact same game, just now with the Zelda IP removed. And he's on solid legal ground.

Important Caveat: IP law is way more complex than my simple explanation, so if you want real answers talk to a lawyer.

Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm surprised Daybreak wasn't all over shutting that shit down.

That was probably another factor making them abandon it (besides just the player complaints). Also the Daybreak agreement wasn't too long after that, but I don't think they were related.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also the Daybreak agreement wasn't too long after that, but I don't think they were related.

What "agreement?"

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What "agreement?"

Originally Posted by Rogean

We have recently entered into a written agreement with Daybreak Game Company LLC

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=191146

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=191146

Thx for finding that!

[Triiz]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That was probably another factor making them abandon it (besides just the player complaints). Also the Daybreak agreement wasn't too long after that, but I don't think they were related.

This quote from edited OP and the last 2 pages of the thread make it sound like the sole reason it didn't happen is because the Kickstarter campaign failed.

We are sorry to hear that the Kickstarter project for Pantheon did not meet it's funding, so we have removed the tier reward section of this post to prevent confusion.

[Hitmonkey]

A lot of IP Google lawyers in here I see lol.

If you watch the latest live stream of game play the monk, cleric, and enchanter class are straight rips from current EQ. Skills, spells, class name, game mechanics... Lifted straight from EQ.

All I was saying is if i noticed it you know DB did and you can't do that. It's the "idea" + "excecution" that makes a IP for all you Google lawyers out there, and I was surprised to see such a clear copy.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Hitmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All I was saying is if i noticed it you know DB did and you can't do that. It's the "idea" + "excecution" that makes a IP for all you Google lawyers out there, and I was surprised to see such a clear copy.

I'm neither a lawyer nor a Google employee (the closest I get is having worked in the Google buildings before Google bought them). However, the basics of IP law really aren't hard to understand, and once you do you realize that an "idea" is not a relevant term in IP. It either has to be an idea for a patentable process/invention, or it has to be an idea that you write down, and then copyright what you wrote, or an idea for a company/product name that you trademark.

EDIT: There's actually a few other categories of IP, but I left them out for simplicity.

Outside of that there simply is no legal protection for anything else unless you and the people involved draw up a contract for it. Pantheon could literally copy every race, class, and zone from EQ, exactly, and as long as they replaced everything that's protected, ie. made entirely new art assets, gave the guild leaders new text, renamed everything, wrote fresh code etc.

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property. It explains things much better than I did, and includes other types of IP I didn't bother with.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the "map" of the zone might be copyrightable (I don't think it is, but again I'm no lawyer), so perhaps you couldn't put every tree in the exact same spot either.