The Omega Proposal

[Pokesan]

forgot to logon Litigator?

[Maner]

Originally Posted by temporalrift [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In Reference to server rules 1-11 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=132299) You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.
Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

In accordance of rule 4.12 I hereby initiate The Omega Proposal: the immediate disbandment of the guilds Aftermath and Awakened for the habitual violation of Rule 4.12 under the Server Rules and Expectations set forth under the auspices of Derubael, retired GM of Project 1999, and Llandris, current Server Guide of Project 1999.

Since this is lawyer-quest and all, I have included evidence along with my proposal for the immediate disbandment of the guilds Aftermath and Awakened, with the additional stipulation that their guild leaders and officers be formally censored from forming, leading or organizing another guild on this server, with any attempts at 'shadow leadership' or the formation of 'unofficial' guilds resulting in additional disciplinary action, not limited to suspension or banning of characters and/or accounts.

Please see the following threads as the initial evidence for this proposal:
Exhibit 1) https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=246016
Exhibit 2) https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=253736
Exhibit 3) https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=261775
Exhibit 4) https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=261899
Exhibit 5) https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=263081
Exhibit 6) https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=264102
Exhibit 7) https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=268708
Exhibit 8) https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=268709

Further addendum will be considered from witnesses who wish to come forth and present their testimony to be added into evidence for or against this proposal in this thread and will be accepted under the purview of any Guides who wishes to acknowledge this proposal officially.

Any personal attacks directed against me or that do not provide testimony for or against the Omega Proposal will not be taken into consideration.

You would make a terrible lawyer. Using evidence against one group to prove the wrongdoing of another is a fallacy.

[Orloc]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You would make a terrible lawyer. Using evidence against one group to prove the wrongdoing of another is a fallacy.

This is a logical fallacy - courts of law are not about proofing ones logic. They are about presenting ones argument in a way which sways the juries perspective on the issue resulting in a resolution.

This man is on the right track.

To the gentlemen who referenced "you casuals". I didn't know logging on every day - playing for 4-6 hours and all day on the weekend put me in this bucket. ( seems pretty hardcore in fact ).

I have had many encounters with A/A - and EVEN YOUR MEMBERS acknowledge how shitty some of the people you harbor are.

There are plenty of nice folks who really do want to share / help foster a more cooperative positive community on p99 - but have caved under the pressure A/A puts on the server and have joined your ranks for lack of a "better alternative" to achieve their personal goals.

Lets get the facts straight =) A/A has the horrible reputation they have for a reason- and there are plenty of documented instances / reoccurring events that even GM's have called out in your numerous bans.

Integrity = not the goals you achieve , but how you go about achieving them.

So have some - and admit where you could improve / cooperate.

Yours truly,
That "casual" guy who is probably a better player than half the zerg force A/A uses to keel there merbs =)

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Orloc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a logical fallacy - courts of law are not about proofing ones logic. They are about presenting ones argument in a way which sways the juries perspective on the issue resulting in a resolution.

This man is on the right track.

To the gentlemen who referenced "you casuals". I didn't know logging on every day - playing for 4-6 hours and all day on the weekend put me in this bucket. ( seems pretty hardcore in fact ).

I have had many encounters with A/A - and EVEN YOUR MEMBERS acknowledge how shitty some of the people you harbor are.

There are plenty of nice folks who really do want to share / help foster a more cooperative positive community on p99 - but have caved under the pressure A/A puts on the server and have joined your ranks for lack of a "better alternative" to achieve their personal goals.

Lets get the facts straight =) A/A has the horrible reputation they have for a reason- and there are plenty of documented instances / reoccurring events that even GM's have called out in your numerous bans.

Integrity = not the goals you achieve , but how you go about achieving them.

So have some - and admit where you could improve / cooperate.

Yours truly,
That "casual" guy who is probably a better player than half the zerg force A/A uses to keel there merbs =)

Which is why you object on grounds of relevance. You're arguement is the same as finding someone guilty because someone else like him committed a crime in the past. A/A are two different entireties and youre combining their offenses which is a fallacy and just plain dumb.

You say things like I have had interactions with, and our members, but now one knows who you are and what guild you're referring to. The horrible reputation you speak of is due to people like you reading the forums and having biased opinions from the onset. Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything.

It's funny that you think there are "Better" players in this game. There is a very obvious skill cap in EQ and it doesn't take anything resembling a good gamer to reach that cap. No one is pressuring you to do or not to do anything. The bar is there and is easily reachable for anyone wanting to start raiding. The problem is people like you don't want to even try reaching that bar. You would rather blame the people who do commit stupid amounts of time to tracking because you can't. The problem is your idea of a better alternative is only better for you and the people like you. who like you refuse to commit the time to compete in the raid scene.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is why you object on grounds of relevance. You're arguement is the same as finding someone guilty because someone else like him committed a crime in the past. A/A are two different entireties and youre combining their offenses which is a fallacy and just plain dumb.

You say things like I have had interactions with, and our members, but now one knows who you are and what guild you're referring to. The horrible reputation you speak of is due to people like you reading the forums and having biased opinions from the onset. Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything.

It's funny that you think there are "Better" players in this game. There is a very obvious skill cap in EQ and it doesn't take anything resembling a good gamer to reach that cap. No one is pressuring you to do or not to do anything. The bar is there and is easily reachable for anyone wanting to start raiding. The problem is people like you don't want to even try reaching that bar. You would rather blame the people who do commit stupid amounts of time to tracking because you can't. The problem is your idea of a better alternative is only better for you and the people like you. who like you refuse to commit the time to compete in the raid scene.

I was going to be insultive and rude, but instead have opted to simply express my irrelevant opinion. This sounds bad, Maner. You are better than this.

[Pokesan]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was going to be insultive and rude, but instead have opted to simply express my irrelevant opinion. This sounds bad, Maner. You are better than this.

no, he's not.

[Orloc]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is why you object on grounds of relevance. You're arguement is the same as finding someone guilty because someone else like him committed a crime in the past. A/A are two different entireties and youre combining their offenses which is a fallacy and just plain dumb.

You say things like I have had interactions with, and our members, but now one knows who you are and what guild you're referring to. The horrible reputation you speak of is due to people like you reading the forums and having biased opinions from the onset. Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything.

It's funny that you think there are "Better" players in this game. There is a very obvious skill cap in EQ and it doesn't take anything resembling a good gamer to reach that cap. No one is pressuring you to do or not to do anything. The bar is there and is easily reachable for anyone wanting to start raiding. The problem is people like you don't want to even try reaching that bar. You would rather blame the people who do commit stupid amounts of time to tracking because you can't. The problem is your idea of a better alternative is only better for you and the people like you. who like you refuse to commit the time to compete in the raid scene.

I'll address these one at a time - putting aside the name calling - which I wont take any offense to as you clearly misunderstood my intent.

"A/A are two different entireties" (entities) Absolutely - but the represent the same ideal and thus are equally relevant here.

"The horrible reputation you speak of is due to people like you reading the forums and having biased opinions from the onset. Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything. " - I have played here since 2011, I left the server because of guilds "like" A/A ( back then it was TMO et al ). I am sure some names have changed but again - see point 1

"Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything." - this one is funny, and very presumptuous. All people put time into things they care about - I have had all the same sleepless nights camping things as the rest of any serious EverQuest player - Everyone has equal entitlement - we all earn our lewts no one "owns" anything except for the people facilitating this wonderful game we all are trying to get the most out of. I hope you let that one sink in a bit.

"It's funny that you think there are "Better" players in this game." - is this so funny? Everyone who reads this I am sure has grouped with "good" and "not so good" players from every class there is. Sure a lot of the mechanics in EQ are straight forward and very well known - but there is a certain finesse and knowledge base required to be "Great" - along with countless hours of farming gears.

"The problem is people like you don't want to even try reaching that bar" - You don't know anything about me - or the effort I put into everything I do - I am also not sure what imaginary bar you are speaking about? There are very concrete requirements to complete raid content.

And finally

"The problem is your idea of a better alternative is only better for you and the people like you. who like you refuse to commit the time to compete in the raid scene." - My (I speak for more than myself) Idea of better involved a less toxic - more productive - generally healthier community which cooperated with each other. I think you would be hard pressed to find evidence against this being a good thing.


You have made my point very clear - and for that I thank you.

I will leave you with this.

"With great power - comes great responsibility" - Awakened and Aftermath are two of the strongest guilds on the server and in a large way shape the ecosystem. The entire community has been asking ( begging ? ) for a more equal playing field for years now. It has been met with trolls - blatant refusal and general dismissal.

This speaks to the perceived character and general reputation people have come to expect from A/A - I think this forum thread represents a continued disapproval from the larger community and deserves to be heard and acted upon.

[Comoc1]

Originally Posted by Orloc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To the gentlemen who referenced "you casuals". I didn't know logging on every day - playing for 4-6 hours and all day on the weekend put me in this bucket. ( seems pretty hardcore in fact )

Bro if you put that much time in and choose not to raid that's on you. Seriously.

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stop being toxic (that goes for everyone involved in that raid scene mess).

Nothing toxic about my statement. Period.

[entruil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPsYKDKCo6w

[entruil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IHnBafsyIU