What does Casual Raiding really mean here?

[kotton05]

Rustle = non tracking guild, we dont award dkp for staring at screens unlike a/a but they can still mobilize and kill the same as A/a, thats a casual raiding guild, actually can clear VP and ToV themselves.

in a stark comparision a Casual Scum Guild can pretty much clear HoT/fear/hate themselves but not much else and may occasionally see a rare raid target.

[paulgiamatti]

That's mostly a fair description. Although, if I were still in CSG and still carried that pride, that comparison would probably piss me off because each guild in CSG technically "can" clear everything in the game except Sleeper's Tomb.

They can't competitively clear it, but the difficulty isn't in the content. Same with Anonymous and Divinity. The difficulty is in the FTE race, which I absolutely hate and think is antifun. When I signed up for P99 what I really hoped for was a nostalgia trip where I could just experience the content of the game with people who I want to experience it with.

On P99 you can't do that, because A/A gets a lot of enjoyment from dominating the server and blocking others out of content. The end-game content for most casual raiding guilds is doable, it's just insanely hard to beat the hardcore guilds to the punch, and insanely hard to beat end-game content with other guilds breathing down your neck waiting for a vulture kill, and it's also an unclassic experience.

I mean if you had a CSG guild go up against Vulak they'd get owned. But then they'd rez up, modify their strategy, and try again. Sooner or later they'd get it down, and the dragon would die. You don't get to do that on P99, and I think that sucks.

[Vallanor]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rustle = non tracking guild, we dont award dkp for staring at screens unlike a/a but they can still mobilize and kill the same as A/a, thats a casual raiding guild, actually can clear VP and ToV themselves.

in a stark comparision a Casual Scum Guild can pretty much clear HoT/fear/hate themselves but not much else and may occasionally see a rare raid target.

You're definitely downplaying how many raid targets CSG is capable of. As PaulG said, the hyper-competitive nature of the raid scene prevents us from doing ToV and super high end Velious mobs most of the time, but this last repop netted us a Yelinak and Klandicar kill among other things. You're more closely describing an actual casual guild closer to something like Paradox or Veloci Shift. CSG isn't really "that" casual.

[paulgiamatti]

I think he's spot on - he's saying *a* casual scum guild, not CSG as a force. And I pretty much agree - there is very little that each CSG guild does individually except HoT, Vindi, and the planes.

But again, a lot of that isn't because they're incapable of beating the content - it has more to do with server and inter-guild politics. Each guild in CSG can easily kill all Kunark dragons outside VP, but they still team up for them because it's just easier. Same with stuff like Vindi, Velk, sometimes HoT - these are things that CSG guilds can do competitively, but there isn't much else because P99 is hypercompetitive and doesn't allow for mulligans.

[Vallanor]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think he's spot on - he's saying *a* casual scum guild, not CSG as a force. And I pretty much agree, there is very little that each CSG guild does individually except HoT, Vindi, and the planes.

Ohh okay. That makes more sense. I still take exception to him saying we "can" clear HoT, planes and not much else. We definitely "can" do a lot more than that, even though individually we don't all that often.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 is hypercompetitive and doesn't allow for mulligans.

And bear in mind, this is being extremely generous. Most of the time you don't even get firstigans, even when you legitimately outmobilize and win the FTE, because griefing people is rewarded on P99 - and to your typical hardcore raiding sociopath, an enjoyable experience. Someone will find a way to flop a train on you from the other side of the zone so that their guild gets the mob.

In my experience, this is most often how competitive raiding goes. The server is inundated with people who get their kicks from it, and they'll tell you to petition your fraps before they act like human beings or work out a compromise. It's seldomly fun.

[Raev]

Basically there are three levels of guilds:

• Casual: raid a few times a week, maybe 10-15 total hours total. Probably do some combination of HOT, Sky, Vindi, etc. Examples: Infernus, Fires of Heaven.
• Hardcore: have at least a few people willing to FTE/race/batphone at most times. Do casual content plus some of the slightly less contested stuff like Kunark dragons, TOV west, ST dragons. I'd say only Rustle and CSG occupy this slot. And I guess Venerate.
• Need an intervention by loved ones: Have FTE racers staring at the wall and competing (I use this word in a very loose sense) for every raid target and batphoning them 24/7. Get the vast majority of BIS loot. This is basically Aftermath and Awakened.

Generally the way it works is that people start out some level of Casual/Hardcore and then join A/A after not progressing their character for 6 months once they hit that HOT/Epic stage. Some just enjoy it, but I would say more burn out and either ghost or go back to the casual level after getting a few pieces of gear. Or they get kicked for interfering with the Chardok RMT mafia.

[kotton05]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think he's spot on - he's saying *a* casual scum guild, not CSG as a force. And I pretty much agree - there is very little that each CSG guild does individually except HoT, Vindi, and the planes.

But again, a lot of that isn't because they're incapable of beating the content - it has more to do with server and inter-guild politics. Each guild in CSG can easily kill all Kunark dragons outside VP, but they still team up for them because it's just easier. Same with stuff like Vindi, Velk, sometimes HoT - these are things that CSG guilds can do competitively, but there isn't much else because P99 is hypercompetitive and doesn't allow for mulligans.

your last line really sums it up, along with all your other points!

to the AG who commented to me about "not" being able to do things. I'm referring to at the drop of hat being able to out mobilize for a target thats tracked by top guilds and win fte etc... I know you guys have SERIOUS numbers. AG came in HUGE at the AoW kill iirc like 50 or so folks.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simple definition for P99:

Hardcore raiding guilds = Awakened & Aftermath

Casual raiding guilds = all other guilds that raid regularly

So there's a spectrum of what "casual raiding" entails - you have the more serious casual raiders like Divinity, Anonymous, Rustle, CSG, etc., who have a small core of hardcore raiders but are generally accommodating to a more casual playstyle, and you have guilds that raid semi-regularly but don't really have that core of hardcore people like Infernus, Clue, Fires of Heaven, et al.

as a casual player I think casual raiding involves most or all of the following:
- no dkp
- no required raid attendance
- raids are generally impromptu, not scheduled
- lax about level requirements
- no tracking, socking, or batphones

not many guilds on p99 fit this bill, granted, but some do. I look at most guilds that raid as not-very-casual. they generally require a significantly higher time commitment than I and most casual players I know are willing to invest in the game. so it's hard for me to call this a definition of "casual raiding". suppose it's all relative.

and yes, I'm aware that following these guidelines will get you few if any high end targets, but I look at that as somebody else's problem. ain't worth it for me. being able to say that is probably a good a definition of "casual" as any.

[kotton05]

basically casual can mean a few things, one thing it doesnt mean is mouthbreathing for pixels for 16 hours at a time i think we all agree on that.