Libertarian Party, why do you FAIL?

[Blitzers]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your argument is we don't need any rules or laws or any collective agreements in a society....because everyone instinctively knows the right things to do and will always do them?

Sounds legit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think we need planned parenthood to sell live humans to study what's really instinctive amongst "man" without the influence of religion or society. What is the natural instinctive traits of "man."

[Scrapiron]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your argument is we don't need any rules or laws or any collective agreements in a society....because everyone instinctively knows the right things to do and will always do them?

Sounds legit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Congratulations Ivory, your skill in Begging The Question has improved!

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your argument is we don't need any rules or laws or any collective agreements in a society....because everyone instinctively knows the right things to do and will always do them?

Sounds legit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rules are great buddy. But why you think that Donald trump, Hillary Clinton, or Ted Cruz should be making those rules is beyond me. This isn't a question of abstract philosophy, it's one regarding the nature of a country where children drink lead but we have plenty of money to drop an ordinance on a tribesman anywhere on earth. I'm truly happy for you that you're content with the state of affairs in American politics, I'm simply not. As for instinct, mine tell me that I wasn't meant to accept that the worst people in my society should be elevated to power simply because 75% of my countrymen believe that government has a mandate to whatever it wants because they're too afraid of the consequences of change. Libertarianism isn't a rejection of civility and order; it's a rejection of the idea that the US federal government has any legitimacy when it actively chooses the interests of corporations and Wall Street over those of its citizens.

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But why you think that Donald trump, Hillary Clinton, or Ted Cruz should be making those rules is beyond me.

Fun fact - the US president doesn't make the laws! Oh my oh my, did I blow your mind? This thread is a fun house of learning right now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fun fact - the US president doesn't make the laws! Oh my oh my, did I blow your mind? This thread is a fun house of learning right now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Guess you've never heard of an executive order. The point was that our government is made up of people hardly qualified to make rules governing a society.

See: levels of lead in drinking water in Cleveland and Flint. We can invade countries quite easily but fuck building basic infrastructure

[Scrapiron]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fun fact - the US president doesn't make the laws! Oh my oh my, did I blow your mind? This thread is a fun house of learning right now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ivory, it looks like you are confusing rules with laws.

You do realize that the legislative branch cedes a great deal of its rule making to various agencies of the executive branch right?

[Blitzers]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If government is the only thing that compels you not to murder your fellow citizens you're a very sad person who probably isn't fit to discuss politics

thou shall not murder.

Thank you Old Testament.

[Raev]

You are simply wrong. For example, here is a quote from 'Democracy in America' written by Alexis de Toqueville after a trip to the USA in 1831.

Originally Posted by Alexis de Toqueville

I met with several kinds of associations in America of which I confess I had no previous notion; and I have often admired the extreme skill with which the inhabitants of the United States succeed in proposing a common object for the exertions of a great many men and in inducing them voluntarily to pursue it.

Thus the most democratic country on the face of the earth is that in which men have, in our time, carried to the highest perfection the art of pursuing in common the object of their common desires and have applied this new science to the greatest number of purposes. Is this the result of accident, or is there in reality any necessary connection between the principle of association and that of equality?

As soon as several of the inhabitants of the United States have taken up an opinion or a feeling which they wish to promote in the world, they look out for mutual assistance; and as soon as they have found one another out, they combine. From that moment they are no longer isolated men, but a power seen from afar, whose actions serve for an example and whose language is listened to. The first time I heard in the United States that a hundred thousand men had bound themselves publicly to abstain from spirituous liquors, it appeared to me more like a joke than a serious engagement, and I did not at once perceive why these temperate citizens could not content themselves with drinking water by their own firesides. I at last understood that these hundred thousand Americans, alarmed by the progress of drunkenness around them, had made up their minds to patronize temperance.

They acted in just the same way as a man of high rank who should dress very plainly in order to inspire the humbler orders with a contempt of luxury. It is probable that if these hundred thousand men had lived in France, each of them would singly have memorialized the government to watch the public houses all over the kingdom.

I know this is more than 160 characters and has some big words, but read it. America in 1830 is precisely what you would call Libertarian, and yet the people were tremendously civic minded and constantly forming associations where each citizen would work voluntarily to further the public good. Now we are like his French example: everyone just expects the government to fix everything. Contrary to Marx, Communism is a reversion to baser tribal instincts, not progress to a higher ethical order.

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

America in 1830 is precisely what you would call Libertarian, and yet the people were tremendously civic minded and constantly forming associations where each citizen would work voluntarily to further the public good.

Also had child labor and no worker safety laws and slavery....

The good ol days! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

more marxist idiocy

You claimed that without society without government is impossible. That without the beneficent hand of government hovering over us we would be unable to form any sort of collective action and would be reduced to living in trees murdering each other.

I proved you wrong by counterexample.

That will be all.