Shaman: Lets put this Stun vs Regen thing to rest

[Daldaen]

When does Regen work?

-Whenever you aren't at 100% HP

When is a shaman not at 100% HP?

-Whenever fighting a mob taking damage from tanking or aggro from slowing or whenever using Canni

When does frontal stun immunity work?

-Whenever fighting a Melee mob that interrupts with bash, and only if the bash is successful, but does nothing to prevent Melee interrupts from push.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When does Regen work?

-Whenever you aren't at 100% HP

When is a shaman not at 100% HP?

-Whenever fighting a mob taking damage from tanking or aggro from slowing or whenever using Canni

When does frontal stun immunity work?

-Whenever fighting a Melee mob that interrupts with bash, and only if the bash is successful, but does nothing to prevent Melee interrupts from push.

Basically this.

The regen is always there. ALWAYS there. Regen is nice for all classes, but for necromancers and shamans in particular (given their dynamic ability to convert mana to hp and vice versa) - regen is more than just nice; it's clutch. FSI is likewise, also very nice. Unlike innate regen, it's highly situational. It's bound to be useful sooner or later - but unless you REALLY needed it at that moment in time, it's basically not doing a damn thing for you.

Troll (or iks) vs Ogre? For me it was a no brainer. Level 60 shamans can solo anything regardless of race. There's nothing an ogre can solo that a troll, barbarian, or iksar can't. That FSI is cute, but at the end of the day it pales in comparison to permanent regen that is always with you and always doing it's magic.

I'm never 100% health. That extra regen equates to more mana and less downtime - doesn't matter if i'm soloing of grouping.

No contest.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Whenever fighting a Melee mob that interrupts with bash, and only if the bash is successful, but does nothing to prevent Melee interrupts from push.

A bash from the frontal cone. If from the rear arch, bash will still interrupt. Also, push.

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When does frontal stun immunity work?

-Whenever fighting a Melee mob that interrupts with bash, and only if the bash is successful, but does nothing to prevent Melee interrupts from push.

I'm restating, but this is the main point. The ONLY time you'll benefit from FSI is when you're facing a mob, it bashes, and the bash doesn't miss. This isn't a common occurrence, especially if the mob is slowed and you're a decently geared shaman. And even then, it's not guaranteed to make a big difference, you'd still more than likely get the spell off in time after the initial bash.

Whereas...

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The regen is always there. ALWAYS there. Regen is nice for all classes, but for necromancers and shamans in particular (given their dynamic ability to convert mana to hp and vice versa) - regen is more than just nice; it's clutch.

[SamwiseRed]

this isnt complicated.

[maskedmelon]

The main problem that I see with you regen analysis is that the standing rate is 12 not 18 and hat means the bonus is 8. All the rest of the regen (regrowth/fungi) can be had without being troll/iksar, so we are really talking about FSI vs. 8hp standing regen bonus or 11hp sitting regen bonus.

8hp/tick is 72hp or roughly one extra CanniIV every 2 minutes for an increased mana regen of 4.1/tick. That translates to an extra torpor every 5 minutes, or an extra slow every 8.5 minutes. The extra torpor translates to an extra 665 - 831 mana over the same period. That translates to an additional 13.6 - 17 mana per tick. Assuming you are able to burn mana and canni enough to take advantage of that, it's pretty damn good. Better than I'd have thought ^^

[gobbosnobbo]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main problem that I see with you regen analysis is that the standing rate is 12 not 18 and hat means the bonus is 8. All the rest of the regen (regrowth/fungi) can be had without being troll/iksar, so we are really talking about FSI vs. 8hp standing regen bonus or 11hp sitting regen bonus.

8hp/tick is 72hp or roughly one extra CanniIV every 2 minutes for an increased mana regen of 4.1/tick. That translates to an extra torpor every 5 minutes, or an extra slow every 8.5 minutes. The extra torpor translates to an extra 665 - 831 mana over the same period. That translates to an additional 13.6 - 17 mana per tick. Assuming you are able to burn mana and canni enough to take advantage of that, it's pretty damn good. Better than I'd have thought ^^

Great catch, thank you. I appreciate it!

However, do you think its still worth it though in comparison? We are simply talking 8 hp regen, and you'd have to be canni/taking damage/not full health the entire time to get its full benefit.
Being able to recast instantly on bash interrupt isn't too bad, and keeps you from being stun locked on multiple mobs.

However, do many shaman at 60 even tank multiple mobs unslowed without dying anyway?

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by gobbosnobbo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Great catch, thank you. I appreciate it!

However, do you think its still worth it though in comparison? We are simply talking 8 hp regen, and you'd have to be canni/taking damage/not full health the entire time to get its full benefit.

Not quite! ^^) You need to Canni IV 9-11 times and cast torpor once every 5 min period to achieve the benefit. That is around 30 seconds of cast time over a five minute period or 10% of your time, leaving 4.5 minutes to do whatever you normally would. Yes, hitting full health would negate the benefit, but another canni would rectify that unless you are fm also, at which point someone has to ask: what are you doing? ^^

[Rejji]

I've played a 60 troll ogre and barb shaman and:

Troll regeneration is Def nice and noticed (and best custom helm obv)
Ogre front stun munities are Def nice and noticed, especially if you do a lot of solo/small group things
Barbarian is a white bear

It's all about what's fashionable to you since you're looking at it the most and this is a dress up game :P

[Pipip]

I avoided the argument by going barb