purpose of warrior

[Raev]

With good weapons Warrior threat is actually quite solid on average; the problem is there are no good mid-level weapons in Kunark. An untwinked 45 warrior is probably using dual 9/25 yak clubs or at best a 9/20 sarnak warhammer; it gets much better with VP weapons (for example the 11/19 Howling Cutlass) but those aren't on the menu for non-twinks. Velious will help a lot here with Wavecrasher and Frostbringer.

But even with good weapons Warrior threat is quite inconsistent, and this effect is magnified by the short duration of fights at L45. As you get into the 50s, fights get longer and the warriors have more time to generate threat, whether its taunt, procs, or just swinging. It's still not perfect, of course: at 60 a geared warrior with a good group might be tanking 80-90% of the time, which compares favorably to the L45 warrior who struggles to tank even 50% of an encounter, but is still quite a bit less than the basically 100% of a hybrid.

So Jimjam has the right idea; if the robes pull aggro, just root. Rangers are actually quite versatile!

[Danth]

Warriors are for main tanking raid named for which /defensive is necessary. That's their purpose in life and what most of the folks who make the class look forward to. With aggro-clickies like mallets Warriors do a good job of it. Within the tank role they're also important for doing a limited selection of content with unusually small numbers. Since Warriors deal more damage than the hybrid tank, they stack more usefully when not tanking than the hybrid tanks since damage always stacks. As a rule it's a class focused on the higher-end, and especially on raiding.

Warriors stink as tanks for normal leveling and experience groups for the reasons discussed. The worse the skills of the group, the more of a liability the Warrior's limited skill set becomes. Good groups can work around the Warriors' deficiencies (usually via root) but it's still more effort and risk than using a hybrid tank. Tanks in EQ are badly designed. Among the three tank classes, we have one with superb durability but poor and unreliable hate generation, then two with sufficient hate generation but ho-hum durability. No matter which one you pick you're missing something and none of the three are optimal for all content. That 10% of the time a higher-level Warrior isn't tanking is when the Shaman gets flattened by a guardian wurm or some such.

Warriors have their place, but it takes a long time to level up to the point of reaching home turf for the class. The 40's through into the mid 50's is probably its low point. Keep with it and eventually you'll be main tanking raid named while the hybrids stand aside uselessly.

Danth

[Wrench]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

which compares favorably to the L45 warrior who struggles to tank even 50% of an encounter

this is not my experience unless you have stupid groups or stupid warriors

you cant be as lazy as when you have a hybrid class, but your group needs to learn to play their classes for endgame anyhow

other than whats already been mentioned, here are some other thoughts:

if your a caster, dont nuke above 70 or so
if your a melee, know how your class can lower its aggo
if your a healer, time your heals and avoid doing them on inc
if your a warrior, use assist msgs to tell people when to attack, and also give your chanter a few taunts on mezzed mobs before breaking

almost all shit people should be doing with any group anyhow, but the level of class understanding seems to be so low most of the time

[Danth]

your post serves to illustrate the weakness of the Warrior in experience groups. Get a hybrid tank and you don't need to do any of that. I disagree with the notion of expecting folks to play in a regimented, raid-style manner even in normal groups; that's not fun! After all, the purpose of the game isn't merely to defeat content--it's to have fun doing it. That Wizard who's gleefully blasting away, the Shaman who malos and slows at his own pace....they're having a lot more fun than terrified shell-shocked casters grouped with some inadequate Warrior, who have to hold back from using their abilities for constant fear of death.

Danth

[Sage Truthbearer]

I think that Warriors would have a frustrating time leveling in random pick-up groups. You're going to constantly have Mage pets breaking mezzes, Shamans slowing too early, etc. and no way to peel aggro quickly. You have to have a patient personality or a willingness to be bossy (politely and hope people have a good attitude about constructive criticism).

As a Paladin, I'm glad never have to deal with this. But Warriors that make it through get the last laugh when they main tank raids.

[Wrench]

would counter that an organized group can push the bounds of pulls and difficult content without a wipe better than a haphazard one, it doesnt matter who your tank is

i have more fun holding challenging camps than doing crs, but to each their own

[Legday]

This is why warrior is the most gear dependent class in the game. An appropriately geared warrior with a haste item, agro weapons, and spider net clickies is equal to an SK or Paladin in terms of holding agro.

It costs a ton of money, hence the gear dependency. Any other gear dependent class in this game is gear dependent on going from a good <insert class> to a great <insert class>. With warriors it either, you're poor and gimped or rich and OP.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Wrench [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but your group needs to learn to play their classes for endgame anyhow

So as the proud owner of a L60 warrior, I'm somewhat sympathetic to this, but at some point it becomes counterproductive: the overall goal is to kill NPCs as quickly and reliably as possible. I want debuffs on and rogues backstabbing ASAP so my group can kill stuff as fast as possible, and if that means I'm not tanking 100% of the time, my ego is just going to have to take it.

[Cecily]

It's really not that hard to root everything so that the warrior can prox agro. Only necessary if you're trying to slow mobs way early.
Don't put it all on the warrior. Ask yourself what can I do to make this group work better?

[ctre]

Ya, it is true.

All Warriors do have a hard time keeping agro in group's when comparing them to a SK or Pally.
You will notice that with any chump change SK or Pally, they will hold agro much better, and you can goto town just putting out damage as best you can.

I think a war that is in a highish group must have gear that helps sustain agro, (IE Gear... that does cost lots of plat). { the problem for all warriors.. gear }.

So as a rule for you , ( ranger dude ). With a warrior tanking, you control your dps output until you can understand your agro limits. Not all Warriors are the same, (ref above $$$plat cost for gear).

The advantage for any group. The warrior will cost the cleric less mana, (assuming all runs smoothly).