Elite: Dangerous

[MrSparkle001]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you back it?

I mean its forty pounds, converted into Can dollars, 78$.

Its a bit frustrating to see 20$ paint jobs getting sold already when theres so little content it seems in-game.

I spent $50 for the preorder Mercenary pack.

[Uteunayr]

Ya'll need to get involved with the background sim. I've been toppling systems left and right for the glory of the Alliance. Up to 900 hours in this game. Not sure what lack of depth you all are experiencing.

Hopefully Powerplay will streamline it so people can figure out the depth of the game more easily. As it stands right now, most people don't even realize how they impact the background sim, and why it is so important. Also note, that's another reason for always online: Everyone, everywhere playing the game is impacting the sway of galactic politics. The system flipping, the battling between factions, all of that would be lost in the game if there was offline.

Now that isn't an excuse. There should be offline. They promised there would be in their kickstarter, but they didn't deliver. Just saying there is a reason in the game for it.

Also, if any of you all haven't made the connection yet: Elite Dangerous' system is exactly the same as the system proposed by EQ Next for world development. Interesting connection, I think.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ya'll need to get involved with the background sim. I've been toppling systems left and right for the glory of the Alliance. Up to 900 hours in this game. Not sure what lack of depth you all are experiencing.

Hopefully Powerplay will streamline it so people can figure out the depth of the game more easily. As it stands right now, most people don't even realize how they impact the background sim, and why it is so important. Also note, that's another reason for always online: Everyone, everywhere playing the game is impacting the sway of galactic politics. The system flipping, the battling between factions, all of that would be lost in the game if there was offline.

Now that isn't an excuse. There should be offline. They promised there would be in their kickstarter, but they didn't deliver. Just saying there is a reason in the game for it.

Also, if any of you all haven't made the connection yet: Elite Dangerous' system is exactly the same as the system proposed by EQ Next for world development. Interesting connection, I think.

An example of lack of depth where you might explain to me what im missing:

Reading tutorials right now on rare com trading. Apparently you need to sell something 130-160 LY away to make a profit. How is that not a time sink and arbitrary? Like for example in Eve, if you found a buying order for some item somewhere at 150k, if you were sitting in a station 3 systems away, and you could buy this item 25k, you just made 375k. (450k selling - 75k for buying it).

I dont get why distance has anything to do with the money you make selling it, seems like a time sink just to make people travel.

[Norok]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyone playing this?

Bought it 2 days ago, only regret it slightly, although i paid 80$

My main gripe so far is that it seems like online was put as a DRM measure as the economic system doesnt seem to be anywhere near the interactivity you get from Eve online. Also would like more depth with the cartographics as so far ive seen just a grind in putting the buyer for the stuff you gather info at an arbitrary 20 LY away from where it was gathered. Im sure down the line itll have its use but seems kinda meh forcing people to go online with what seems at first glance as a pretty shallow experience (trading and cartographics commerce)

It also means that people cant mod the fuck out of it since the small company is probably gonna move with content at a snails pace.

I love how you fly though, but im already seeing myself getting bored out of that soon unfortunately if they dont add more depth.

I bought it and played it over a week; probably 20 hours in total. Very beautiful, fun, and inspired game. I even bought a joystick just to control better and had my friend bring over his Occulus Rift... talk about immersion!

However, the progression curve is too steep. I bounty hunted as it was the most engaging role. I earned up to a Vulture which is superbly combat capable. It costs about 4 mil credits. I was earning at least 1 mil/hour. The next real upgrade is the max level ship the Anaconda for 76 mil. I could not see it really making combat much more efficient for 70+ hours of grinding to get it.

In the end I ran out of things I was interested in doing. I got my money's worth but lament there wasn't more to it.

[Uteunayr]

Yes, it is a time sink if you're going to buy 10-15 rare commodities, and then fly 150 LY away to sell it for maximum profit. But, if you're smart, you'll create a long trade route. You pick up rare commodities in one star system, fly 15 LY away, and get 15 more rare commodities of another type, and so on. You do this until when you're 130 LY away, you sell off your original stock of 10-15 rares for maximum profit, and then buy new items, and make a trade loop. So for example:

0LY: Buy 15 of rare commodity A.
15 LY away: Buy 15 of rare commodity B.
40 LY away: Buy 15 of rare commodity C.
50 LY away: Buy 10 of rare commodity D.
80 LY away: Buy 10 of rare commodity E.
110 LY away: Buy 15 of rare commodity F.
130 LY away: Sell off all 15 rare commodity A, buy 15 of rare commodity G.

And then you start swinging back in a large arc to get back to the original system with commodity A. When you get back to A, you sell all your rare commodity G.

These trade loops are common, but they require you to research and figure out how to plot your route for maximizing your income. On top of this, the places you buy from and sell to add to the political stability of that region. So, if you buy and sell commodities in Leesti which is run by the RI, you're adding to their control of that system. On the other hand, if you deliver Tantalum, which is used in the construction of weapons, or sell other weapons in Leesti, you add to the ability for a minor faction in the system to topple RI because there are now more guns and tantalum to make guns to kill off the faction in control.

So, if you're an Alliance Trader with Empire sympathies who hates the Federation, you need to create a creative route that works for you.

On top of this, if you move beyond rare trading, most space ports run out of supply in about 3-4 hours of trading in the largest ship in the game (The Type 9, or the Anaconda if you add speed as a factor). So being an effective trader is about building up a network of trading sources so you're able to maximize your profit per hour over time. Personally, I have about 80 networks. However, it used to be around 110 trade networks until one of the Federation player guilds decided to flip Empire systems to the Federation. That meant I could no longer sell Imperial Slaves to those markets, killing off that trade route. These do not require you to go great distances, just to find two economies that mesh. One system is High Tech, so it needs minerals and metals to make into High Tech resources. High Tech systems create technology which helps extraction. So? Find an extraction economy system, go there, buy metals. Go to the High Tech system, sell the metals for massive profit, and then buy extraction technology and sell it to the Extraction system. That's how normal trading works.

There's also the potential to create long roads of trade where you soak maximum profit over time, rather than just going back and forth.

As for why rare commodities cost more the further away you are: They are rare. Not many people, NPCs, etc. are going to trade long distances. Why was silk not expensive in Asia but when it had traversed the Silk Road into Europe did it suddenly become valuable? Because the commodity is foreign there, and has greater value to those who don't live on it. This is a real big issue in modern days with oil exporting countries. The oil companies in countries like Iran don't want to sell Iranian oil to Iranians because it is so much cheaper in the country which produces it. They'd rather sell it abroad and make much greater income, but the Iranian government needs to offer sufficient incentives for the oil companies to sell domestically so that way they can assure for their domestic energy needs.

It is pretty much how international trade works.

Originally Posted by Norok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, the progression curve is too steep. I bounty hunted as it was the most engaging role. I earned up to a Vulture which is superbly combat capable. It costs about 4 mil credits. I was earning at least 1 mil/hour. The next real upgrade is the max level ship the Anaconda for 76 mil. I could not see it really making combat much more efficient for 70+ hours of grinding to get it.

Note that the Anaconda costs about 130 million to buy, not just 76. But it is a shitty combat ship. It is good for trading (420/436 tons, large jump range, more maneuverable than the Type 9). After the Vulture, the next best is the FDL (caps out at 100 million with full upgrades). After that, the Python, but it is more a shield heavy FDL. My Python, maxed out, costs around 230 million.

Also note the way to make money isn't to just grind 1 million an hour. Get involved in community goals. I played for 4 hours this week due to the release of The Witcher 3, and in those 4 hours, I made about 4 million in Alliance bounties. But I turned them in at 78 Ursae Majoris as a part of the community goal of making the region safe for the President's visit. The CG ended earlier today, and I got 9 million more on top of it.

One of the more recent CGs was about Unknown Artefacts which have been starting to appear around civilized space. You can see one here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxxZB9ytxQw). They corrode the inside of your ship when you carry them, and they were believed to be on Alien origin. So, the story is starting to lead into the introduction of Aliens. All at the same time, The Empire is divided over a succession struggle, and the Federation is getting rife with crime due to a lame duck President.

One of the ones before that was a CG based on the liberation of the system Lugh from the Federation. Back in Gamma, players decided to test the background simulation by helping the Crimson Party of Lugh grow in power in the Lugh system as opposed to the Federation. Frontier used this to patch up the background sim system, and in the end, made a 4-5 CG long event over the course of a few weeks of the war between the Crimson and the Federation. The Crimson were victorious (my side!) and the Federation pulled back, and Lugh was freed from Federation control. I made about 40 million on that event.

Community goals are the "story" of the game. It is how you get involved in the expanding, growing galaxy. If you're not reading GalNet, you're never going to find those community goals, and you'll wander around aimlessly. And that's fine, if what you want to do is wander around aimlessly. But if you want something to do, to be a part of the story, the option is there, you merely need to look for it. Since I was a part of the liberation of Lugh, whenever I go to Lugh, I know I was a part of that. New people to the game will never know how crazy the PvP was in that war, because they weren't there for it. But there will be more wars in the future for them to be involved in. It's the exact same thing as EQN proposed about creating a story in an open world environment.

The story is there, and it is something you can get involved in, but you have to want to do it. You can't just log in, go bounty hunt, and log out and expect the story to be jammed down your throat. Just like with EverQuest, the story and the lore, it's out there. It is in the world. It is in the books and news you find. The game doesn't begrudge you listen to the story, merely offers it to you to take it, to enjoy it, if it is what you want.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for why rare commodities cost more the further away you are: They are rare. Not many people, NPCs, etc. are going to trade long distances. Why was silk not expensive in Asia but when it had traversed the Silk Road into Europe did it suddenly become valuable? Because the commodity is foreign there, and has greater value to those who don't live on it. This is a real big issue in modern days with oil exporting countries. The oil companies in countries like Iran don't want to sell Iranian oil to Iranians because it is so much cheaper in the country which produces it. They'd rather sell it abroad and make much greater income, but the Iranian government needs to offer sufficient incentives for the oil companies to sell domestically so that way they can assure for their domestic energy needs.

It is pretty much how international trade works.

Thanks for your input through your whole post, always informative [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didnt realize how much of this interaction was already in the game. Still my point holds i think?

I mean the reason silk or spices were valuable in Europe was that they were not available there and there was demand for it, not because they had to be carted halfway around the globe, in itself. Like if i dug out a hole in Spain in 1535 and found 2 tons of gold, it would still be as valuable as gold they brought back from South America.

For example, id be cool selling Space fuel to somewhere 130LY at a much larger price than i bought but because it is rare in those systems, not because of the distance the various items travelled.

Like if this space fuel can be bought locally for cheap and im selling it high because of the distance i travelled, it breaks immersion and thats where i think my criticism is still valid. I havent really checked on it thoroughly but i thought thats how it worked? The commodity rises in prices as you take it more and more away from the region you bought it from, not from much reasons of the local market on that specific item.

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Information......

I learned more from your post than I have from numerous YT videos and talking to the people I have. I'm still only figuring out ship controls and very basic game play but just the mention of the GalNet opened up a lot of information to me. Thanks.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for your input through your whole post, always informative [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didnt realize how much of this interaction was already in the game. Still my point holds i think?

I mean the reason silk or spices were valuable in Europe was that they were not available there, not because they had to be carted halfway around the globe. Like if i dug out a hole in Spain in 1535 and found 2 tons of gold, it would still be as valuable as gold they brought back from South America.

Yes, and rare goods are not available in the places you're selling them. They are less available the further you are from the source. The further you go from Leesti, the rarer it is to find Leestian Evil Juice. So, the demand and the price is going to drive up there. In the end, the resource not being available in Europe is because the center of production was half way across the world. And yes, gold would be, because gold can be found throughout the world in mines. Silk was rather uniquely produced in one place at that time. Hence, the difference between a commodity and a rare commodity.

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For example, id be cool selling Space fuel to somewhere 130LY at a much larger price than i bought but because it is rare in those systems, not because of the distance the various items travelled.

Sure, but space fuel isn't a rare commodity, it's just a commodity. What you describe is exactly how commodity trading works. One system wants Gold, the other system sells gold. They are 10 LY apart. Buy gold in one, sell it in the other, make massive trade. But these are not rare commodities, they are not unique. So they wont get more valuable the further you go from the source, because there are *many* extraction systems devoted to mining asteroids. Gold isn't Leestian Evil Juice, which is only made in one system: Leesti.

So to sum up: The difference is that Rare Commodities are different from Commodities. Commodities are found all over civilized space. Gold mines. Some places may have more of them, other places less, but they are all over. Rare Commodities are unique, they are produced in one place, and only one place. The further away from that one place, the harder it is to find, so the more valuable it is. It doesn't matter how far away you cart gold, there's probably an extraction system within 20 LY of wherever you're going to sell it. But there's only one Leesti.

Originally Posted by -TK- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I learned more from your post than I have from numerous YT videos and talking to the people I have. I'm still only figuring out ship controls and very basic game play but just the mention of the GalNet opened up a lot of information to me. Thanks.

Np. Add me up in game: Surrealis. We can wing up. That offer goes to anyone here who has the game. You can also add me on Steam.

[Tradesonred]

Ah, i get it, thanks! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Uteunayr]

Oh, also note that as you buy a resource (say gold) from one extraction system, it reduces their supply, and the price drives up. When you sell it in a high tech system, their demand reduces, so they will start to pay less for it. So prices are dynamic. The more people know about a particular trade route and use it, the more limited the supply, the more satiated the demand, the higher the prices to buy, and the lower the prices to sell, and overall the less profits earned. So it is really in the interest of the trader to find trade routes other players don't frequent so they can maximize their profits.