New Tracker Rule

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not necessarily true. If Class C ran in to get the kite for draco how do you determine who has the kite on the firewall? There are generally multiple kites going. One answer is to try and bind sight from original trackers, but that requires that you have the person on the bell tower (stationary) click the kiter and get the bind sight on a mob following closely to him and that's still sketchy.

If you just have someone watching from the field you can tell your guild's bards who it is and they can track that player to bracer them.

And again, he did not have any real effect in this particular outcome anyway, because draco was a mess.

The effect it had on the encounter is irrelevant, an infraction is an infraction. BDA got to sit out on a class R Sev where a botched pull was considered an infraction and had no bearing on the outcome of the encounter. The new ability of being to switch out two crappy trackers for two raid ready fully buffed characters at a location convenient for an engage is pretty fucking major. Plus it's a nightmare to police. What's to stop having two groups camped at nwall that login part ways through the zone in, I don't want to police that and nor should the staff.

You shouldn't be able to park characters at the nwall for all the listed reasons.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The new ability of being to switch out two crappy trackers for two raid ready fully buffed characters at a location convenient for an engage is pretty fucking major. .

Is anyone else not seeing where in this scenario this happened or why it would be inferred that if trackers who are visually tracking the zone can be in zone then I guess that means raid ready toons can also be there? Looks a lot like youre stretching this one pretty far Chest.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The effect it had on the encounter is irrelevant, an infraction is an infraction. BDA got to sit out on a class R Sev where a botched pull was considered an infraction and had no bearing on the outcome of the encounter. The new ability of being to switch out two crappy trackers for two raid ready fully buffed characters at a location convenient for an engage is pretty fucking major. Plus it's a nightmare to police. What's to stop having two groups camped at nwall that login part ways through the zone in, I don't want to police that and nor should the staff.

You shouldn't be able to park characters at the nwall for all the listed reasons.

The thing to stop them is that they can only have 2 of those characters in zone at one time... for the purpose of tracking.

It's probably a good thing that we did not loose our nerve on this tactic when you sent some tells though. I have logs of you stating that you had fraps of nuffwin eating a DT upon log in, something you said specifically.

according to the rule: "Note on Crying Wolf – if you request that another guild concede a mob, you better be 100% certain that they made an error, because if you make another guild concede/forfeit a mob under false pretenses you will be punished harshly" found here, there would have been a suspension from BDA for saying:

[Sun May 03 14:42:54 2015] Chest -> Cloki: we have nuffwin logging in at nwall and taking DT immediately, DQing your kill.


Which of course, is not true and would, in fact, be a clear violation of the raid policy.

I'm not a fan of open discussion like this, seems too ineffectual. If there is anything that you and I can work out on specifics or even precedent, please send me a pm and we can do it that way. We could even post our refined thoughts here for the world to see, but this feels a bit like dirty laundry.

[Pint]

So what youre saying is that Nemce is lying and this tracker actually did engage CT to kite, heal or dps?

[bktroost]

My tracker did not get FTE, pull, MT or in any way ensure/maintain an FTE. He threw in a superior heal twice after the mob was engaged and secured with significant dps and primary heals, which I confirmed, is acceptable to do. however, he was not camped out with the purpose of raid engagement, he was camped there for the purpose of observing. Sirken confirmed this was acceptable considering the impact he had on the encounter and purpose of his positioning was entirely observational.

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My tracker did not get FTE, pull, MT or in any way ensure/maintain an FTE. He threw in a superior heal twice after the mob was engaged and secured with significant dps and primary heals, which I confirmed, is acceptable to do. however, he was not camped out with the purpose of raid engagement, he was camped there for the purpose of observing. Sirken confirmed this was acceptable considering the impact he had on the encounter and purpose of his positioning was entirely observational.

There is zero difference between 1 and 20 people camped out then in zone - because once the mob has spawned you're no longer limited to the 2 active trackers in zone.

See the problem?

[bktroost]

yes you are. You are entirely restricted to 2 people that have been camped in. 100% restricted to only 2 people that were camped prior to CT pop in the zone to be allowed to engage in the fight at all after FTE was aquired. Mages on poop mountain can CoTH or run in and make a pet and engage once the FTE was acquired. But you cannot pull in 20 camped players from poop mountain to engage.

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yes you are. You are entirely restricted to 2 people that have been camped in. 100% restricted to only 2 people that were camped prior to CT pop in the zone to be allowed to engage in the fight at all after FTE was aquired. Mages on poop mountain can CoTH or run in and make a pet and engage once the FTE was acquired. But you cannot pull in 20 camped players from poop mountain to engage.

Correct - but you cannot have the CotH mages on poop mountain do the cothing and watching for pops, then log off to two fully buffed tanks on poop mountain to engage.

Nuffwin was in zone before the spawn, logged off. Logged on and then assisted with the engage. Had he not done anything other than observe/locate/herd kittens in case of another guild's kite and wipe, to better your raid force for a potential zone in/pick up kite/engage, then there's no issue. I'm willing to concede the fact that guild trackers are not bound to a specific tracking location, other than they must not achieve FTE when tracking....because that's right and fair.

[bktroost]

I have nuffwin's full log - he actually didn't heal anyone nor did he do any damage to the target. I was being informed by a BDA person that they saw him heal the MT. He cast 2 heals but never landed a heal on anyone but himself...not that it is against the rules, but I don't see this conversation being any more productive. Feel free to ask whatever though, for clarification purposes.

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have nuffwin's full log - he actually didn't heal anyone nor did he do any damage to the target. I was being informed by a BDA person that they saw him heal the MT. He cast 2 heals but never landed a heal on anyone but himself...not that it is against the rules, but I don't see this conversation being any more productive. Feel free to ask whatever though, for clarification purposes.

[Sun May 03 15:41:27 2015] Nuffwin begins to cast a spell.
[Sun May 03 15:41:32 2015] Nuffwin's casting is interrupted!
[Sun May 03 15:41:35 2015] Nuffwin begins to cast a spell.
[Sun May 03 15:41:45 2015] Nuffwin begins to cast a spell.
[Sun May 03 15:42:25 2015] a fetid fiend says 'You will not evade me Nuffwin!'
[Sun May 03 15:42:36 2015] a fetid fiend says 'You will not evade me Nuffwin!'

Please clarify how healing himself drew aggro on the fetid fiend. Healing someone with aggro would make that happen, but not certain how healing himself while observing in the distance would make that happen.