Spells: Necromancer Lich + Demi-Lich

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I don't understand this.

If you nuke yourself does it count as PvP damage too then?

iirc it was like that on live

[Thrilla]

I do vaguely remember as a gnome necro back then that using demi lich was serious business as far as HP decrease, may even remember still using regular Lich as a result more I jog my memory I believe I used regular lich in live BOTB because demi was way too aggresive. not good [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] didn't even realize hp decrease was 32 / tick for demi here since now I'm an Iksar and I don't pay as much attention. Makes sense if it's the 66% hitting it.

Not a fan of anything that 'nerfs' necro on R99 as they're relatively weak compared to live, buf it is classic.. it's classic!

[Uteunayr]

Demi still hurts a great deal for non-Iksar. That's 25 a tick. In 24 seconds you're losing 100 hp. In 50 seconds, that's 200. For only a moderately geared 60 (~1000 HP), that's pretty close to dying in just under 5 minutes. And that's with 100% sitting time. So I think Demi Lich hurts a great deal already for non-Iksar.

Those patch note from Haynar seems to suggest that the Lich damage we are experiencing now is already reduced by 1/3rd, which would mean that the actual damage (objective of that damage reduction) would be the values consistent with Daldaen's damage.

I think this says that the problem or question at hand isn't Lich/Demi Lich damage values, but whether or not the 1/3rd damage reduction on self-inflicted dots is classic. If it is not classic, then removing that would bring the damage of Lich/Demi Lich up to the values Daldaen is reporting. If it is classic, then what we have now is consistent with classic.

Lastly, the only other possibility is if the values of Daldaen's data is post-damage reduction in Classic. Anyone seen anything that would support this?

[Victorio]

If you look at the lucy link that was provided, it shows a great deal of switching back and forth between the 32 and 22 hp per tick "versions" when they're trying to move it there. Each time some PvP and other spell aspects are listed as being changed as well. It seems likely they're just trying to get the spell around the PvP damage reduction so that the 22 listed on the spell is the 22 that happens, rather than 32 listed on the spell to make 22 happen. None of the changes after the final change to 22 show any more PvP changes, which makes me think that they fixed it then.

Edit: Also, if you look at this demi lich post in 2005 from allakhazam
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...11251354671211

He's saying he's got a pvp damage reduction before the spell ever gets changed in lucy to do less damage.

TLDR - pvp damage reduction classic

[Basenji]

This is classic. I remember it from one of the balance discussions where someone, probably Absor, pointed out that Lich was already more efficient than intended due to the PvP damage reduction. And they decided to leave it.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Basenji [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is classic. I remember it from one of the balance discussions where someone, probably Absor, pointed out that Lich was already more efficient than intended due to the PvP damage reduction. And they decided to leave it.

Would love to know when/where these discussions were. See if they are archived anywhere.

[Darkatar]

Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't lich "beneficial" (read: you can click it off) so it shouldn't be affected by the pvp damage mod.

This is much different than nuking/dotting yourself (you cannot click it off)

I don't pvp, so I'm really in no position to make claims. Just my logic train on the issue.

[Coffee]

Originally Posted by Darkatar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't lich "beneficial" (read: you can click it off) so it shouldn't be affected by the pvp damage mod.

This is much different than nuking/dotting yourself (you cannot click it off)

I don't pvp, so I'm really in no position to make claims. Just my logic train on the issue.

great point

[koros]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would love to know when/where these discussions were. See if they are archived anywhere.

I 100% remember this. Will look for it.