Whats up with all those lazy clerics ?

[Xer0]

I learned to be lazy by playing a cleric. When I first started playing him I was all about nuking, rooting, stunning, str buffing and even meleeing some. But then my playstyle started getting people killed. All that time not spent sitting waiting to expend mana on heals will really bend you over if things unexpectedly hit the fan.

Don't get me wrong, I root often, because it's a low mana cost spell that has a huge impact, and I understand the value of knocking down somethings HP more quickly to save time/HP lost.. but I certainly feel that's better left to the other classes that specialize in those areas

As far as HP/AC buffs go I am guilty of letting people go without them, but for the most part I only feel obligated to buff the tank and any class ike necro/shaman that reduce their hp for the benefit of the group.

I also do not hp/ac buff myself, so I often forget the buffs when they wear off. The moment anyone tells me they'd like an ac/hp buff I am on it as soon as mana permits.

[ArumTP]

Hey man I'm all busy windowed out watching netflix waiting my time for a complete heal. Stop charming stuff you never have good control of.

[Ravager]

It is an insanely boring class to play and hard to stay focused, especially when half your time in the group is spent trying to line up a rep since you don't want to piss people off when you have to leave.

But keeping the enchanter alive is the most important job. Tank dies? Big deal, you rez him and get back to work. CC dies? Have fun CRing that wipe.

[Speedi]

Originally Posted by Harbogast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However rooting and stunning as a cleric is a bad idea, you are just wasting your mana.

I root when needed when I play my cleric (enchie is overwhelmed, or just dont have a enchie) I also stun enchie pets too, rather be fast with a stun than waste 350 mana using DL on them. Low lvl stun is next to no mana FYI, and its a very fast cast. Stun is also great for duo with a enchie. After u stun the pet break, once it wears off you got full aggro. So you tank the pet so enchie can recharm. Instead of enchie getting interrupted trying to recharm.

As for the OP, yea you right. Most are lazy as hell

[Mentathiel]

As someone with an enchanter alt, I would point out that charm is a dangerous spell if you are using it recklessly. I've been in groups (as a rogue) where the enchanter was losing control of their pets every ten seconds and ones where the pet lasted 15-20 minutes without needing to be re-charmed. The difference was the level of the mob; lower-level mobs stay charmed longer and are easier to re-charm, root, mez or just kill. Yes, you lose a little DPS and they might die faster if they end up tanking, but at least you are not constantly dealing with your own former pet instead of focusing on the fight.

The cleric's job is to keep you alive though. If they want to offer advice, if they want to bitch about your poor choice of pets, that's fine. As long as they keep you alive, as long as they are paying attention to the fight and choosing how/when to intervene, they can curse your entire bloodline for all I care.

What you do not want is the cleric and enchanter screaming at each other in /gsay about how the other doesn't know how to play their class.

[Harbogast]

Originally Posted by Speedi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also stun enchie pets too

You are correct that this works, but only because we are playing eqclassic where mobs don't hit for anything and are completely trivial. You could also run around in circles every time pet breaks with like a 99% success rate. When you are playing in a more difficult expansion and a charm pet breaks, the cleric immediately casts heal on the enchanter and the enc stuns the mob himself, then casts a short duration mez, and recharms. That's everquest 101. But we are not in a more difficult expansion so I concede that cleric stunning is a valid strategy.

[Diogene]

Speaking chanters job... Hand picked pets are better. I usually know what Im charming, and I dont necessary charm ALL the time, it just depends on mobs avail and group comp, but of course generally speaking if the chanter is constantly recharming, it can be annoying...
However I do feel as a chanter a certain lack of consideration (specially from Clerics), as we should be treated a lil better... I might be a whinner or whatever my thread suggests, but if "sitting your butt till next CH" is all clerics are supposed to do for the sake of min maxxing, then there is something wrong with the game. IMO

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But keeping the enchanter alive is the most important job.

This is true, and its one of the roles a Ranger can help with. When I'm in a group with a chanter or a cleric, my #1 job is to peel mobs off their asses, move them off, and root or prox park them. between flame lick, snare, and heal spam I can peel pretty fast. Yes, they can root and move off themselves, but it takes valuable time away from them, and in a situation where they NEED to have something peeled from them, things are usually going bad and they are very very busy.

[Kreylyn]

I'm gonna start with some basic info to use as a reference.

A lv 40 cleric with pretty decent gear (read, NOT twinked) is what I'm baseing this info around.

219 wis + gear = mana pool of 1735.

Valor = 90 mana
Symb of Pin = 200 mana
Armor of Faith = 150 mana.

Buff just those on one char = 440 mana (not counting the lost regen from cast times). That's 25% of the mana pool.

Regen of 16 mana with out chanter buff... around (21 mana with) per 6 second tick. Lets say (since OP is chanter) that C1 is buffed on the lv 40 cleric...

440 mana at 21 regen rate = 21 ticks for full mana recover per, or 2 mins 6 sec. Lets just round that to 2 mins cause.... maths hard.

6 players, buff you self first because that's how you set a good timer right?

Buff yourself (25%), buff the chanter (25%) and buff the Tank (25%).... Now you have 25% mana left for the pull, and half the group still left to buff, and need straight 6 mins to med it back.

Complete heal = 400 mana.
Sup heal = 250 mana.
Greater heal = 150 mana.

So a pull comes in after your buff, you had 30 seconds after buffs before your first heal to be cast due to the pull...

Mana pool = aprox 500 with regen.

You currently have the option of...

1 complete heal leaving you with 100 mana... You will not cast another heal with out regening mana. You could cast 1 root at 60 mana, or... you could save that for a heal. What do you do... hrm?

2 Sup heals for 583 hps leaving you with 0 mana... OOM.

3 Forget healing, lets crowd control with the mana you have left.

Lets just say the cleric was "lazy"... and healed only... with option 2.


Fight is over, group wants to pull. You have 30 sec - 1 min before next pull comes in.

You regen 210 mana... . That's not even 1 sup heal.

Chanter gets agro from resist.

Chanter can't stun, root, CC their own mob.

Cleric has to heal.

Tank has taken dmg too... but you can only cast 1 heal on one character.

You regen just enough to cast Sup heal on chanter, finish fight with tank at 30%, chanter alive, mobs dead... cleric OOM.

8.5 mins now for full mana regen. 15 mins now for full mana regen and you buffed the other 3 chars... cuase you dont' want to be a lazy cleric right?

Are you gonna sit and wait for 15 mins for full regen? How many groups do you know that's up for that kind of down time?

So what really happens?

I join a group, I ask... "Any cleric or other buffs I need to know before I start buffing?"

If nothing that is better, or already on... I'll buff the quick... Valor on everyone. AC on those I know who will get hit (tank, cc, puller).

Symbol... is reserved for situational consideration. If the chanter is under level... I'll buff it. If the tank is taking a lot of dmg, I'll buff it. If we are having problems with proper CC and someone is off tanking, I'll buff em. Everyone in the group is not getting symbol unless there is a good reason for it. It's not lazy, it's simply mana conservation for being able to function as anything else in the group.

As an aside, if your not supposed to get hit, you should control your agro so you don't need symbol. (I'm talking dps or other non cc/tanking players). I will heal you to start, and I will communicate to you that you need to stop what your doing to draw agro. Then.. I will stop healing you. One way or another, people who are not supposed to get agro will learn. Death is a good teacher.

First pull immediately after buffing the basics, and I'm generally at 30-40% mana already. The next hour is fighting mana regen vs heals cast for pulls to get back towards 100%... so that when buffs wear off, I can recast them taking up nearly a full mana bar.

2 sup heals or 1 CH and I'm OOm for heals on that first pull.

Or... the entire group waits for regen.

I have a hotkey... "%t rooted, step away!" I use it when asked. Otherwise, my expectation is that the CC in the group know what they are doing, and can do THIER job or can communicate to the group what they need.... Jus sayn.

Can I do CC... sure. If there are other healers in the group, and mana regen ins't as important cause heals are covered, buffs are covered, then... I'll use other things. Stuns, roots, even DD cause why not... you can only hit 100% mana regen, you can't bank extra. I never just sit when 100% mana.

But when there IS a CC in the group... yeah, this lazy cleric expects you to do your jerb. If you CAN'T do your jerb, then at least communicate clearly what you need help with and why. Otherwise, until I'm 100% mana... I'm medn to prepare for that next heal. Cause... that is what a cleric does.

But... that's just my take. I'm sure others will have their own.

Krey

[harnold]

When i play a cleric and I don't buff or help the enchanter my groups still prevail so i see no reason having to spend the extra energy on a needy enchanter. Learn to play your class better