Raid scene: Variance Socking

[texwilly]

I used to think raiding was to get elite gear to go back and attempt difficult encounters with friends. The endless cycle of raiding to raid better dies when you have no more progression. I will probably fall back into the shadows and watch from the sidelines, hoping some savant will discover the "correct" solution for the server.

A new blue server (green maybe?) on a correct timeline would be the best thing P99 staff could ever do. Why they resist this idea is beyond me (resources?).

[Magnar]

Originally Posted by texwilly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I used to think raiding was to get elite gear to go back and attempt difficult encounters with friends. The endless cycle of raiding to raid better dies when you have no more progression. I will probably fall back into the shadows and watch from the sidelines, hoping some savant will discover the "correct" solution for the server.

A new blue server (green maybe?) on a correct timeline would be the best thing P99 staff could ever do. Why they resist this idea is beyond me (resources?).

Another server would just be ruined by the same raid mentality as here.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Magnar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another server would just be ruined by the same raid mentality as here.

It takes time to achieve the level of ruin we have now. I don't think a "classic" timeline would allow for quite as much ruin. (But let us not forget the cockblocking that shat up some of the live servers back in the day. P99 did not invent the use of the word "competition" as a synonym for "do everything legal plus anything and everything else you think you might be able to get away with to shit all over your neighbors, PvE my ass!" mentality.)

There is a higher density of, hrrm, let's call them "extremists", that's not too pejorative? in our community than there was on live. There is also a lot better detailed knowledge about game mechanics and content than there was on live. I have no doubt that free accounts plus this extensive knowledge would be as heavily exploited by said extremists on a new server as they have been to date, but even so they wouldn't have the time (and the period of legal account trading) to take things to the level they're at now. In particular, limiting the Kunark to Velious delay to only the historical 9 months would probably have a pretty large effect.


[heresy]
Still, it's worth noting that on many/most live servers Lower Guk was paved with people camping single spawns for the last 2-3 months before Kunark dropped. The first year of content might should be compressed into a six-month span if the goal is to avoid the "ruin" that is the current p99 raid environment. Hell, given the way people play here, 6 months classic, then 6 months Kunark, then 12 months of Velious, and then introduce custom high-end raid content after that, if you want to achieve a substantial reduction in the friction between the extremists and the casuals.
[/heresy]

[Velerin]

Originally Posted by texwilly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I used to think raiding was to get elite gear to go back and attempt difficult encounters with friends. The endless cycle of raiding to raid better dies when you have no more progression. I will probably fall back into the shadows and watch from the sidelines, hoping some savant will discover the "correct" solution for the server.

A new blue server (green maybe?) on a correct timeline would be the best thing P99 staff could ever do. Why they resist this idea is beyond me (resources?).

Just another filthy casual that can't compete. /sarcasm

As much as the extended timeline of the server is the problem, I really think its the sheer amount of accounts (when account buying/selling was legal) that this extended timeline caused. When "competition" requires having people parked at each raid encounter. There's no way for an up and coming guild of new p99ers to compete with established groups of alt armies.

[texwilly]

Classic timelines and lack of alternate characters drastically would effect the raid scene. It could stall out at the same phase here if we wait too long on Velious, but 1.5 + years before velious would be launched should provide enough time to finalize the development of the code and tested on the existing blue and red servers. This is worthless discussion, though, in my honest opinion.

[baalzy]

Remove variance entirely.

PvP (no level limit) gets enabled automatically for all flagged guilds that are in-zone or an adjacent zone (easy enough to flag a raider/non raider guild) 30 minutes before the mob spawns. Whichever guild manages to engage and kill the mob while the other guilds are attacking them is the winner.

Unflagged guilds / untagged characters get hefty account suspensions / permabans for repeat offenders if they interact with the raid encounter or provide support to a PvP flagged character.

[baalzy]

Alternatively, for the 'no pvp ever' crowd. Auto-port any raid guild tagged character (logged in or not) that is within 3 zonelines of a raid encounter to random port rings/spires on mob pop (PoH would just kick them out of the zone) and let the guild with the most successful mobilization squad win.

Ban interference from untagged/flagged people.

[texwilly]

Anyone else feel a ridiculous sense of hopelessness for this raid scene? I mean i am already regretting posting this because so many conversations have already taken place. The community bitches and whines no matter what and the end result is always new levels of debauchery by neckbeards. I agree that the multiple accounts is the culprit in this day and age.

I don't think this is fixable anymore.

[Sampten]

If the server population is too large to support the limited raid content that is classic, Kunark, and you could argue that you could throw Velious in there, then you're left with 2 options:

Option 1: All guilds (C+R) develop a "up next" list and you follow that to the T. If It's XXX guild's week for Inny, then everybody else backs off. This somewhat becomes problematic because of the lengthy respawns, but it at least stays "classic". Will it please "C" guilds? No. Will it please "R" guilds? Maybe...who knows. I imagine they still are left with the decision of whether or not to jump to "C" status or stick with what they're regulated to raid based on the "C/R" raiding that's currently in place.

Option 2: You say "screw classic" and instance specific Raid zones. VP becomes instanced. Hate and Fear become instanced. You'd probably want to instance ToV and you could make the argument of instancing Kael due to Vindy/Statue/Idol/AoW being "hot targets". You'd then also need to instance ST as once there's enough keys, that'll be perma-down.

If you really look back at EQ, the raid content took off at PoP. There was so much content that it could support many guilds raiding. Your "R" guilds were way behind the "C" guilds, and while the "C" guilds focused on PoP (and SSRA/VT), the R guilds were able to really hammer home Kunark, Velious and Luclin. By the time the "C" guilds hit the Elementals, the "R" guilds were starting to work their into PoP.

Really, what a lot of this drama boils down to is that there are too many raiders for the content, and Velious won't actually fix that. While "R" guilds may find Vindy up regularly (8hour respawn), KT, Statue/Idol/AOW will be perma-down, as will TOV and NTOV. The mobs that drop ST keys will be also perma-socked because guilds are going to need to get ST keys.

[Velerin]

Yeah, rule changes can't fix mentalities. A new server with better timelines and no account sharing/trading would be the best bet but that would essentially kill the current server which would cause mass neckbeard suicides, followed by bad p99 press, followed by neckbeard moms worldwide suing Rogean and co.