Would you play on red if:

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Bboboo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No.

Some people just don't want to PvP. End of story.

... but that's not going to stop the endless recruitment posts and passive aggressive sales pitches from the Red diehards.

[Daldaen]

I'll play on red if the Priest of Order allows me to turn in the book of order and turn off PvP.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll play on red if the Priest of Order allows me to turn in the book of order and turn off PvP.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm writing that one down [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll play on red if the Priest of Order allows me to turn in the book of order and turn off PvP.

This ... kinda: I only want to be able to turn the book in temporarily though.

The problem with red is that you'll be XPing, and some asshole will come along and kill you. That, very simply, is not fun, and I'm sure it's a huge part of why people try the server and leave. We're playing a game, and the point of playing a game is to have fun.

PvP is fun when you ready to participate in it, but currently on Red you have no choice: you have to participate 100% of the time. It doesn't matter that you wanted to try and get your toon to level 5 tonight: if some twinked asshole decides he wants to kill you and make you do a corpse run, you're getting killed and making a corpse run tonight ... instead of having fun playing Everquest. So that's why I don't play on Red: I want to have a say in whether I'm going to get to play the game when I log on, and on Red I don't get that say, the twink does.

If I could turn off PvP to go XPing, and then turn it on when I wanted to fight other players, that would be wonderful. It's almost as if I wish there were certain "battle ground" zones where you could go to fight, and then continue to play the game as normal outside of them. But no MMOG has ever done anything like that and been successful (certainly not the most successful MMOG of all time) ...

[Swish]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with red is that you'll be XPing, and some asshole will come along and kill you. That, very simply, is not fun, and I'm sure it's a huge part of why people try the server and leave. We're playing a game, and the point of playing a game is to have fun.

The mindset is all wrong though loramin. You're trying to avoid the full pvp experience by only trying to pve.

If you zone into say.... Mistmoore, and you see someone there on half health sat down not giving any shits about where they are - you don't have to pvp them, but you need to be aware that its possible.

You can kill them, take their coin and leave... or stay, let them loot their corpse, and they'll leave and go somewhere else or camp out.

The "pvp happened to me, I don't like it" mentality needs some work - you should be initiating pvp as well...and the first fight you win is as good as any dragon kill or epic quest completion in terms of the rush (especially if it was close).

...and trust me, you'll want it again [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Make pals, know your enemies... and learn the right strategies. It's the same game you always loved, but its a whole new game at the same time <3

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The "pvp happened to me, I don't like it" mentality needs some work

Based on other recent threads, that seems like a pretty typical Red response: if you don't think it's fun to have no control over being killed, you don't belong on Red. Well then, it's no wonder so few people think they belong on Red.

I'm no stranger to MMOG PvP: I played DaoC, EVE, WoW (on a PvP server), and even Shattered Galaxies (a failed RTS MMOG). I most definitely enjoy PvP in the right context ... but when I'm leveling in my starting area, that's not the right context. No amount of lecturing me on how my "mentality needs some work" is going to change that.

Consider a WoW PvP server (in contrast to Red):

1. I start in an area that's pretty much 100% safe from PvP.
2. Once I level enough to leave, I can still XP in a mostly safe area: if the opposing faction shows up to grief, warning alerts inform the whole zone and higher level players appear to save me.
3. Once I leave the "mostly safe" area, people generally keep the fighting to contested zones and battlegrounds (they're incentivized to).
4. Even if I do get in a fight elsewhere, at least I'm ready for it, and have a whole faction to support me.

Red isn't WoW, and it shouldn't be. But Red should take lessons from successful games, and change its ruleset to support fun for everyone ... or it can stay as is, and Red players can keep telling anyone who doesn't like it that they don't belong.


TLDR: If someone has tried Red and didn't have fun, telling them they don't belong (or that they need a different mentality) is not going to grow your server. What will grow the server is taking a lesson from other games where PvP actually was successful, and changing Red's rules in ways that encourage fun for everyone (ie. fair fights) and discourages ganking of n00bs.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Based on other recent threads, that seems like a pretty typical Red response: if you don't think it's fun to have no control over being killed, you don't belong on Red. Well then, it's no wonder so few people think they belong on Red.

Well, in turn...that's a typical blue response I think [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not for everyone, but I think a lot of people misjudge how good it can be. The only thing that would make it "classic" is a higher pop.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Based on other recent threads, that seems like a pretty typical Red response: if you don't think it's fun to have no control over being killed, you don't belong on Red. Well then, it's no wonder so few people think they belong on Red.

I'm no stranger to MMOG PvP: I played DaoC, EVE, WoW (on a PvP server), and even Shattered Galaxies (a failed RTS MMOG). I most definitely enjoy PvP in the right context ... but when I'm leveling in my starting area, that's not the right context. No amount of lecturing me on how my "mentality needs some work" is going to change that.

Consider a WoW PvP server (in contrast to Red):

1. I start in an area that's pretty much 100% safe from PvP.
2. Once I level enough to leave, I can still XP in a mostly safe area: if the opposing faction shows up to grief, warning alerts inform the whole zone and higher level players appear to save me.
3. Once I leave the "mostly safe" area, people generally keep the fighting to contested zones and battlegrounds (they're incentivized to).
4. Even if I do get in a fight elsewhere, at least I'm ready for it, and have a whole faction to support me.

Red isn't WoW, and it shouldn't be. But Red should take lessons from successful games, and change its ruleset to support fun for everyone ... or it can stay as is, and Red players can keep telling anyone who doesn't like it that they don't belong.


TLDR: If someone has tried Red and didn't have fun, telling them they don't belong (or that they need a different mentality) is not going to grow your server. What will grow the server is taking a lesson from other games where PvP actually was successful, and changing Red's rules in ways that encourage fun for everyone (ie. fair fights) and discourages ganking of n00bs.

A lot of emphasis there on being able to be killed in your starting area. Consider how long you're there, versus your time in other places later on.

If you get ganked by a deleveled epic rogue in full uber gear with everything BIS while killing wolves/orc pawns/skeletons (as is a frequently typed out myth) I'd say you got extremely unlucky [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the kind of thing that really doesn't happen often, but sure...death is part of it. If you can't handle being killed by another player (which seems to be what you're saying) then by all means stick to blue.

EQ pvp isn't ez mode WoW pvp with quick respawns/access to corpses/etc. But it is fun.

I know that if more people played on red, more people would play on red, nameen? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't hate on the recruitment threads, it's just a bunch of us who'd like to see the community grow.

[Atalya]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The mindset is all wrong though loramin. You're trying to avoid the full pvp experience by only trying to pve.

If you zone into say.... Mistmoore, and you see someone there on half health sat down not giving any shits about where they are - you don't have to pvp them, but you need to be aware that its possible.

You can kill them, take their coin and leave... or stay, let them loot their corpse, and they'll leave and go somewhere else or camp out.

The "pvp happened to me, I don't like it" mentality needs some work - you should be initiating pvp as well...and the first fight you win is as good as any dragon kill or epic quest completion in terms of the rush (especially if it was close).

...and trust me, you'll want it again [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Make pals, know your enemies... and learn the right strategies. It's the same game you always loved, but its a whole new game at the same time <3

Keep begging for people to come on your shitty server. I feel warm inside everytime i login and see (26 players currently online ) for Red

[Malone88]

Originally Posted by Atalya [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep begging for people to come on your shitty server. I feel warm inside everytime i login and see (26 players currently online ) for Red

I feel warm inside knowing that there's some bluebie LFG in Karnor's not doing crap for hours because thats their only option for XP. I'll get more XP with a duo on red in one day than this person will get in a week or
maybe even a month.

There are at TON of benefits to a low server population...