Why I don't like to group

[Nedala]

ever been at a royals aoe grp?

do it, and then tell me grp exp would suck. (if you are not a mage or necro that is, of course you will get more exp solo, as a solo class).

Btw tell a warrior grouping is pointless [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[yaeger]

I can see why the Devs have a hard time deciding what's class and what is not, it's not easy finding out data. Nerfing solo classes would cause a huge community backlash.

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not true, I've checked it with debugging repeatedly. In fact what happens is:

Example mob worth 1000 xp.

One person killing one mob gets 1000xp.

Six people killing six mobs get 6600xp (which equates to 1100xp per player before normalization).

If all six players are the same level and are class/race combinations without any XP modifier then all six players will get 1100xp each.

However, if the group is again the same level, but has some penalties etc, it works out like this:

Race        Class    Per Mob  For Six 
---------   -------  -------  ------- 
Human       Cleric     162       974 
Ogre        Warrior    174      1042 
Halfling    Rogue      142       851 
Erudite     Wizard     180      1083 
Barbarian   Shaman     171      1026 
Half-elf    Ranger     271      1624 
---------   -------  -------  -------
Total                 1100      6600

So except for the Human Cleric and the Halfing Rogue, all members of the group earn more XP for killing 6 mobs while grouped than they did killing one mob solo.

The benefits of solo'ing vs. grouping depend on a lot of factors, but from a raw XP perspective, if the group can consistently kill 6 mobs in the amount of time the solo'er kills one mob, the group will earn faster XP over time.

So basically a group will earn a bonus (10% more experience with a full group). Depending on your group makeup, even with the group experience bonus, you can earn LESS experience killing 6 mobs, than a solo player will achieve by killing a single one.

However, according to:

------------------------------
June 11, 2003
------------------------------

** Experience System Change - Grouping **

We've made some improvements to the way experience is rewarded in EverQuest.
These improvements are aimed at positively reinforcing the
act of grouping. After all, this is a Massively Multiplayer game.

Prior to this update groups gained a 2% to 20% experience bonus for
having two to six members.

As of today this bonus has increased to range from 20% to 80% for
having two to five members. When a group adds a sixth member, the 80%
bonus remains, but the experience gained is only divided by 5 before
being distributed. The sixth group member no longer causes the
experience gain to be divided by 6.

Meaning in classic EQ a full group would have a total of 20% experience with the bonus scaling as you gained more members.

I'm sure there are other reasons that solo classes can gain such a clear-cut advantage in experience that haven't been addressed. Things like mages old-style bolt spells that would strike terrain and have z-axis requirements. Also, in classic I remember roots would override snares. Perhaps, pet heals never got reset back to their previous values, previous hate values, etc.

I'm hesitant to put more on the devs shoulders, but the whole unbalanced group vs solo thing seems to be really hurting the community.

[UrsusMajor]

I think another reason for slower xp grouped vs. solo is rate of pull. As has been shown above, it can take 6+ mobs killed in a full group to equal 1 mob killed solo.

This means that your group most likely needs to be pulling yellow to red con mobs and needs to be pulling them constantly. The only problem with this is red cons can be extremely difficult if a camp isn't broken and with the slightest misstep can cause a wipe. So many groups instead go for DB - Yellow mobs. The problem then arises of not enough mobs to keep a constant stream coming as they go down so fast.

I know when my druid grouped in Unrest, grouping was always much slower than soloing. It was easier than soloing and more fun but xp really sucked.

Another good example and yes I know this weekend was a 25% xp bonus but my necro went being level 40 with 2.5 yellows to hitting level 60 this weekend. This was just xping Sat-Sunday. I hit 46 at about 5pm est. Without the xp bonus I'd say I'd probably just have hit level 45.

How does that compare that to high level grouping?

[President]

Originally Posted by UrsusMajor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another good example and yes I know this weekend was a 25% xp bonus but my necro went being level 40 with 2.5 yellows to hitting level 60 this weekend. This was just xping Sat-Sunday. I hit 46 at about 5pm est. Without the xp bonus I'd say I'd probably just have hit level 45.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[eqdruid76]

Solo xp > group xp, but groups allow one to be lazy and more careless. Hence, groups are preferred, and it's easier to make up data to support grouping than it does for soloing.

Anyway, how much chain pulling actually occurs pre-Kunark? Seafuries if you're REALLY lucky. Everywhere else is too crowded.

Grouping will start to be worth it in Overthere and Dreadlands.

[RKromwell]

I spend a lot more time sitting on my ass solo, I would much rather be in a group.

[Ponden]

If you can't find a group or find that groups are really bad. Maybe you should take on the initiative of being the tank or healer and possibly change the way groups are ran.

Or you can be a dps and keep crying. Either way, nothing is wrong with grouping.

[Nedala]

i always group, i grouped all the way to 50 on my druid and it didnt seem slow at all, this was before the group exp nerf. After the nerf i leveled (still leveling) on my ench and it feels really slow, but it gets better, my exp bar now(lvl 30+) moves as fast as it did from lvl 10-20 , ....doesnt seem to get slower. Also on my lvl 50 druid my exp bar moves as fast as on my 30ish enchanter(after i ate some 0% rezzes).

Im still sure something is not right there, because i dont feel like theres a leveling curve at all after lvl 10....and no, i dont think exp in higher level should be slower, but it should be faster in lower levels [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[yaeger]

Originally Posted by eqdruid76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Solo xp > group xp, but groups allow one to be lazy and more careless. Hence, groups are preferred, and it's easier to make up data to support grouping than it does for soloing.

It's a wrong assumption that grouping is preferred so people can be lazy and careless. I'm surprised you even mentioned it. Like all things it depends on the people.

You have an opinion, that's fantastic. How about using examples and evidence to back up your opinion. It's not always 'making up' evidence if the sources are trustworthy.

This isn't the first post about this issue, that should tell you that's it's a pretty common concern within the community.

[eqdruid76]

Originally Posted by yaeger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a wrong assumption that grouping is preferred so people can be lazy and careless. I'm surprised you even mentioned it. Like all things it depends on the people.

You have an opinion, that's fantastic. How about using examples and evidence to back up your opinion. It's not always 'making up' evidence if the sources are trustworthy.

This isn't the first post about this issue, that should tell you that's it's a pretty common concern within the community.

Aye, so is bickering about it and ultimately coming to NO conclusions.

What it comes down to is that in a lot of cases, it's REALLY tough to group with some of the buffoons who play on this server, not necessarly because they're bad, but because they're unequipped with the social skills to get along with 5 other players for more than 10 minutes before they start nerdraging. A lot of the time, it is simply easier and less stressful to solo than to put up with those clowns.

I mean, you think Abacab is the only guy around here who enjoys griefing everyone around them? False. More than half the population do it on an hourly basis. For jollies.

If you're lucky to roll with a good crew of groupies, then huzzah for you. Don't piss them off.