A Plea to the Staff of Project 1999

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Wonton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First to engage is what has worked over MANY servers for MANY years. Other than selfishness and immaturity their is no reason to protest a first to engage.

There's no reason to protest it as a player.

From a GMs perspective, it's entirely reasonable to assume inmates running the assylum is something you'll go to great lengths to prevent.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Timeline is missing the fact that IB also showed up to Nagafen 5 hours early and claimed Nagafen. Proving that they were willing to operate under the system as long as it benefited them.
-Timeline is missing the fact that IB also showed up to Nagafen after Trans had been there for 14 hours early. Also missing the fact that you guys decided that the system that you guys were operating under should no longer apply to you.

We never agreed to any system. There was one talked about but it was never agreed to because Allizia wanted the second guild to wait outside the zone and we wouldn't agree to that (as a guild).

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I heard plenty of whining from IB when Trans started showing up 8++ Hours in advance for a spawn. In fact, that was the entire reason you guys decided you didn't want to follow the system anymore.

There was no system, we never agreed to any system.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys decided that the rules didn't apply to you

There was no system, we never agreed to any system.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

..and wanted to just "engage first." You decided you wanted to write the server rules, sorry that isn't going to fly.

Maybe if *you* had written some server rules, we wouldn't have had to.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only way to get you guys to abide by these rules is with some form of leverage. That leverage was a 14-day ban. Ever since the rotation was announced, I have been very clear that we would be open to further suggestions and systems that people wanted to propose. Up until today the only suggestions we have really been told were, "Who ever engages first and does the most damage should get it!" Uhhh. Ya. No.

I honestly have nothing to say about this, as it is pretty much on target.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are a PVE server, we need some form of order here on this server.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It sounds to me like you have a severe case of PVP-Mentality.

Wenai, honestly, if you think the mentality we've shown is severely PvP, you're a carebear. We're trying to compete with, not kill, trans. I think you're under a lot of false assumptions as far as what our positions are, and if you had ever bothered to talk to us, you would know that. Unfortunately our only communications with you has been you joining our guild to inform us of how it was going to be.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as I know, VZ/TZ is doing a fresh wipe. I suggest you guys check it out

I herd that advertising for other servers wasn't allowed here. BAN!!

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

because your ethics aren't going to fly here.

FUCKING ROFFLECOPTERS!!! You are SERIOUSLY accusing _US_ of having faulty ethics while you ignore and defend PROVEN EXPLOITERS ON YOUR GM STAFF AND IN THE LEADERSHIP OF THE GUILD YOU ARE CATERING TO?!?!? Sounds like YOU need to put the pocket dictionary down and maybe attend a class on ethics so that you might have the hope of having some clue of the meaning of the words you throw around in ignorance.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

KSing, not respecting camps and not respecting your fellow players are not viable options here.

We do NOT KS, we DO respect camps, and we DO respect our fellow players to the extent that they respect US. This has been shown time and time again and if you cannot see that you are BLIND. If there has been issue, it is because the GM staff has dragged ass on giving us some server rules and forced us to try and help shape them ourselves and THEN RIDICULES US FOR ATTEMPTING TO DO SO. We are sorry we haven't come to the forums to engage in your carebear tea party, but we've been busy levelling, farming, raiding, and helping people to bother. We've preferred to lead by precedent in the past, but obviously that is not going to work, so I for one will be much more vocal on the forums from now on to try and work this out. But Wenai do not fucking accuse us of shit that didn't happen. If you do, bring proof. Oh, wait, you have NONE, so tits or gtfo imho.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. If I left it up to the guilds, and your "first to engage" system, we would have 50-60 people sitting on top of Naggy's spawn point. With no one sure who really tagged it first. Then when it is all said and done, it turns out one Guild KS'd the other, you call for a GM to come revoke and re-distribute the loot dropped. Seriously dude, if you think everything would be roses; you are dead wrong.

Honestly, I completely agree.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yet you showed such bad faith when you attempted to go outside the current system

Every time you try and say there was a system from now on, I am going to retort that there was no system.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is the thing about a system. If you start following it, you have to keep following it. Unfortunately you decided (as a guild apparently) that it was alright to go outside of the system that both guilds had been following for a few weeks

There was no system. We never agreed to any system.
The facts HAPPEN to have fallen into place as if we were following a system, and so your timeline elements are correct, but no such system existed.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Want to know why the rotation was a priority? I have had a rather peaceful week and a half because there was no fighting over the spawns. There was no one asking me to come watch the raid and make sure nothing shady happened.

Cute.
I guess when it's your buddies doing the shady shit (exploiting encounters, GM's not repopping mobs that are obviously broken) then it's not worth your time to look in to?

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol? Rather than giving it time to play out? We gave it probably three weeks or more.

This was none of our faults, but it needs to be recognized that those two weeks were fraught with issues on the spawns and ddos attacks. We didn't really get a fair shake to work it out on an even playing field.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What more do you want?

I want you to do your job. Punish the people taking unfair advantage of the system and blatantly scoffing at GM edicts while simultaneously blaming us for their issues.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had enough of asking you guys to play nice. Both parties have acted like complete children at one point or another.

You're right, and some of us in Inglourious Basterds who have been letting our less restrained members speak for us are acting now for change. I can only say wait and see to this, but I hope for better in the future.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess this is your guys' turn to wear the tin foil hat.

You can't seriously be implying that there is some kind of similarity between the kind of completely unfounded, totally baseless, and 100% unsupported slew of outright lies and blatant speculation that trans harped on for WEEKS about GM favoritism, hacks, and exploiting and the EVIDENCE we have provided to the leadership of this server regarding the obviously exploitative methods that GM-led trans used in the recent past to obtain loot from at least two boss encounters. I really thought your critical thinking skills were better than this Wenai, your posts are usually pretty well thought-out.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will. With the rotation in place, perhaps I will actually have time to look at issues at hand instead of babysitting you guys every few nights whenever a mob spawns.

By your own admission, you had a half a week of peace before evidence was placed at your feet on a silver platter and you've had a week of peace since, and yet nothing has been done.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is really getting old.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have a chance to get rid of the rotation. You have a chance to help develop a system that we feel is fair. Grasp that chance. Embrace it. Make it the best you can that emphasizes competition and fairness.

I've posted an alternative system here. Please review it and say what you think.

[axius]

we know that in classic eq, on live servers, there IS precedent for raid targets / distribution being handled in at least TWO different ways. call them the "rules" if you want.

1) the most uberest guild (dedication, time, gear, skill) gets what the most uberest guild wants. the server i was on was like this (the nameless, guild: legacy of steel). competing guilds would sneak in a kill here and there but for the most part LoS was getting whatever they wanted because they were the most dedicated. you had semi-brief periods of head-butting with other guilds which would result in long as fuck camps, training, ks'ing and general ass-hattery but usually this would go away once it was clear WHO was more dedicated. if one guild keeps getting the lions share of the kills even DESPITE your membership spending countless hours waiting / getting fucked over... well that guild doesn't hold up over the long run and the situation sort of just resolves itself - the uberest guild wins. this isn't just a pvp thing, this was the case on a lot of pve servers as well

2) there are 2-4 "uber-capable" guilds that are constantly racing to spawns, camping shit for hours, and more or less dealing with all the shit i explained above. however, the stars have aligned and the different guilds are able to work it out amongst eachother to "share" the targets, and a raid target rotation is setup. this way ppl get loots over time and they dont have to sock out quite so hard to get them. i know this was the case on karana where a buddy of mine played in classic, and im sure several other servers as well. i know in some cases you'd even end up with scenarios where members of the individual guilds end up raiding with eachother from time to time, etc. there's also of course the scenarios where one of the guilds steps out of line on the rotation and you have a drama bomb, people get butthurt for awhile, and eventually that guild (usually) gets ground into dust and it stops being a problem.

so i think we can all agree that there is precedent for both and we should thus all be able to agree that it's plausible for ones mans "classic" isn't anothers, and so on.

where i think there's a special wrinkle here is that in true live classic it wasn't the gm's that were enforcing this stuff per-se ... at least not until after agreements had already been made between the player bases. in this case you have gm's enforcing the rules - that's not quite so classic by most ppl's recollections.

HOWEVER

there's another wrinkle here which is - let's not forget, this is a fuckin free emu server, you ARE in THEIR world now and they more or less have the freedom to make the rules how they see fit. now you can say that's not classic or w/e and we can debate that but ultimately it's tough shit.

when i played EQ i participated in scenario 1) above, and i thoroughly enjoyed my time. but i gotta say, at this juncture in my life, and i would assume in a lot of our lives, doesn't option 2 sound reasonable?

this isn't 1999 where uber guilds are trying to be internet famous (remember the big guild sites everyone always checked, to see what all the leets were doing? foh, los, al, etc).. let's face it that shit is over with. you're not gonna be internet famous, no one gives a *real* shit about any of this, the primary focus should be on having a good time. option 2 facilitates that with (hopefully) a lessened degree of poop-socking which is ultimately probably going to make this a more enjoyable overall experience.

this shit's capping at velious anyways. you're only racing towards *so much*

[Supreme]

just going to leave it at that.

[Otto]

For the record:

No one has addressed the situation of exploiting and cheating still. Been a week.

That was the main goal of this post anyway.

[Wenai]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We never agreed to any system. There was one talked about but it was never agreed to because Allizia wanted the second guild to wait outside the zone and we wouldn't agree to that (as a guild).


There was no system, we never agreed to any system.


There was no system, we never agreed to any system.

Both guilds were asked to respect each other if they were there first. Both guilds were asked not to engage if the other guild was there first. Both guilds followed these instructions up until a point.

Maybe if *you* had written some server rules, we wouldn't have had to.

Server rules were written a long time ago. They were on the original forums in the News section. Basically that entire forum was deleted some how (no idea how, I had no control over this) and they never got migrated to the new forums. All we had was an older rough draft of the rules which actually to be honest, I wrote the majority of the rules which were then passed on to and approved by Nilbog.

Wenai, honestly, if you think the mentality we've shown is severely PvP, you're a carebear. We're trying to compete with, not kill, trans. I think you're under a lot of false assumptions as far as what our positions are, and if you had ever bothered to talk to us, you would know that. Unfortunately our only communications with you has been you joining our guild to inform us of how it was going to be.

If I had bothered to talk to you guys? I tried to talk to Otto on a few occasions, never really got anywhere. I know Aeolwind had tried to talk to Otto as well and also got no where. Talking to 20+ people at one time is really not efficient nor effective. It is up to your leader to go into discussions with myself or another member of the team and speak for your guild as a whole. Otto has talked to many of us on the team. It seems that your guild's opinion is that you are not happy with anything.

FUCKING ROFFLECOPTERS!!! You are SERIOUSLY accusing _US_ of having faulty ethics while you ignore and defend PROVEN EXPLOITERS ON YOUR GM STAFF AND IN THE LEADERSHIP OF THE GUILD YOU ARE CATERING TO?!?!? Sounds like YOU need to put the pocket dictionary down and maybe attend a class on ethics so that you might have the hope of having some clue of the meaning of the words you throw around in ignorance.

Not even going to address this as it is really not relevant at all. If you feel that you need to attack me personally then so be it, but not relevant to this thread whatsoever.

We do NOT KS, we DO respect camps, and we DO respect our fellow players to the extent that they respect US. This has been shown time and time again and if you cannot see that you are BLIND. If there has been issue, it is because the GM staff has dragged ass on giving us some server rules and forced us to try and help shape them ourselves and THEN RIDICULES US FOR ATTEMPTING TO DO SO. We are sorry we haven't come to the forums to engage in your carebear tea party, but we've been busy levelling, farming, raiding, and helping people to bother. We've preferred to lead by precedent in the past, but obviously that is not going to work, so I for one will be much more vocal on the forums from now on to try and work this out. But Wenai do not fucking accuse us of shit that didn't happen. If you do, bring proof. Oh, wait, you have NONE, so tits or gtfo imho.

You guys did respect myself and your fellow players up to a point. It got to a point where it was apparent that your group was not willing to follow directions anymore and wanted to write your own rules basically. Dragged ass on giving you server rules? I am not really following what you are talking about. The rules were posted during the beta for weeks, and then they were posted on these forums.

I have said time and time again that you guys never KS'd. The issue was that you were threatening to. You can call foul and say that it isn't KSing and it isn't camp stealing or whatever. Fact of the matter is that you were going outside the realm of what this server is about. That is not conduct we condone nor allow. We stepped in and stopped you from even having a chance to do that.

I guess when it's your buddies doing the shady shit (exploiting encounters, GM's not repopping mobs that are obviously broken) then it's not worth your time to look in to?

My buddies? Lol. Do you realize that I have been duoing/soloing ONLY for the past month and a half or more? I have one person on the server that I am in contact with regularly. I really have no ties and for the time being that is how it has to be.

If you want the truth, I have a hell of a lot more ties in IB than I do in Trans. I don't talk with anyone in Trans at all. I am really not sure if you were intending to suggest I have friends in Trans or not. But if you were you are severely mistaken.

This was none of our faults, but it needs to be recognized that those two weeks were fraught with issues on the spawns and ddos attacks. We didn't really get a fair shake to work it out on an even playing field.

You guys still can work something out. I think the spawn variation is a good starting point and we will need all the input we can to make that work. Until then the rotation is staying.

I want you to do your job. Punish the people taking unfair advantage of the system and blatantly scoffing at GM edicts while simultaneously blaming us for their issues.

Ok?

You're right, and some of us in Inglourious Basterds who have been letting our less restrained members speak for us are acting now for change. I can only say wait and see to this, but I hope for better in the future.

I hope that the future is better than the past month or so has been. I defended you guys for weeks when you guys were being slandered for everything. I stood up and answered the call whenever GM favortism claims came into play. You guys had no favortism and I know it was driving you guys nuts when people made these claims. The exact same situation is happening here. Claims that Trans wrote the rules etc etc etc. It is all the same repeated bullshit.

You can't seriously be implying that there is some kind of similarity between the kind of completely unfounded, totally baseless, and 100% unsupported slew of outright lies and blatant speculation that trans harped on for WEEKS about GM favoritism, hacks, and exploiting and the EVIDENCE we have provided to the leadership of this server regarding the obviously exploitative methods that GM-led trans used in the recent past to obtain loot from at least two boss encounters. I really thought your critical thinking skills were better than this Wenai, your posts are usually pretty well thought-out.

Yep. I am implying that this is the exact same completely unfounded, totally baseless, 100% unsupported slew of outright lies and blatant speculated bullshit.

Sorry if you feel that my posts are not well thought-out but there is an easy explanation why you are feeling this way. When your group of individuals are the ones being on the other side of the argument you are going to get defensive. When I was defending you and sticking up for your group of people you thought it was great. When you guys disagree with my stance on anything I am the devil and I should go die. Whatever.

By your own admission, you had a half a week of peace before evidence was placed at your feet on a silver platter and you've had a week of peace since, and yet nothing has been done.

I am in the middle of exams. Kind of not really in the mood to deal with this stuff and decide which brand of diapers I need to wrap around your soft, delicate, slightly rashed bottom. I am not sure if you guys are still rockin' the Huggies or if you are ready for the Big Boy Pullups yet.

I've posted an alternative system here. Please review it and say what you think.

Going to be honest. I don't think this really has any place on our server. I haven't really read it in full detail at this time.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by axius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this isn't 1999 where uber guilds are trying to be internet famous (remember the big guild sites everyone always checked, to see what all the leets were doing? foh, los, al, etc).. let's face it that shit is over with. you're not gonna be internet famous, no one gives a *real* shit about any of this, the primary focus should be on having a good time. option 2 facilitates that with (hopefully) a lessened degree of poop-socking which is ultimately probably going to make this a more enjoyable overall experience.

That is so perfect in every way. /slow clap.

[Wonton]

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Server rules were written a long time ago. They were on the original forums in the News section. Basically that entire forum was deleted some how (no idea how, I had no control over this) and they never got migrated to the new forums. All we had was an older rough draft of the rules which actually to be honest, I wrote the majority of the rules which were then passed on to and approved by Nilbog.

So where are they?

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hope that the future is better than the past month or so has been. I defended you guys for weeks when you guys were being slandered for everything. I stood up and answered the call whenever GM favortism claims came into play. You guys had no favortism and I know it was driving you guys nuts when people made these claims. The exact same situation is happening here. Claims that Trans wrote the rules etc etc etc. It is all the same repeated bullshit.

Added headache?

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry if you feel that my posts are not well thought-out but there is an easy explanation why you are feeling this way. When your group of individuals are the ones being on the other side of the argument you are going to get defensive. When I was defending you and sticking up for your group of people you thought it was great. When you guys disagree with my stance on anything I am the devil and I should go die. Whatever.

Added headache?

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am in the middle of exams. Kind of not really in the mood to deal with this stuff and decide which brand of diapers I need to wrap around your soft, delicate, slightly rashed bottom. I am not sure if you guys are still rockin' the Huggies or if you are ready for the Big Boy Pullups yet.

Added headache?

[Matrim]

If the only purpose here is to have casual fun, why is your guild pulling mobs passed content through the floor and claiming bugged Vox kills as legit?

EQ is the best of the 'hardcore' mmo's. The nature of the game inspires crazy high play times and a competitive spirit. To my mind, those are good things. They keep this 10 year old game truly *exciting*.

A GM-enforced rotation, where there is no rush to compete, and everyone always gets an equal chance at raid mobs... that is NOT Everquest, and it's certainly not exciting.

[Wenai]

Originally Posted by Wonton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So where are they?

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1057