How important is Haste for a Paladin leveling up?

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Kekephee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One thing I never understood on live was the willingness of tanks to throw away stats and AC for haste items like FBSS. Having a 0ac, 0 stats belt because it gives 21% haste always seemed to me to do more harm than good. You're tank; above all else, you need tank stats. That said, once you can get your hands on haste items that DO have ac and stats, that shit is indispensable. Like someone else said, your aggro mainly comes from flash of light and stuns (especially after Velious hits) but faster kills are, you know, important.

Melee agro generated per second IS a tank stat. You aren't tanking if the mob is attacking somebody else. A Warrior needs the haste, he's crippled without it. For Paladin & SK a 21% increase to melee agro generation is still more useful than a few AC or HP, it's just that with the smaller relative benefit (compared to Warrior) the cost of a twink belt in the EC tunnel looks a lot steeper from the knight perspective.

[Kekephee]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Melee agro generated per second IS a tank stat. You aren't tanking if the mob is attacking somebody else. A Warrior needs the haste, he's crippled without it. For Paladin & SK a 21% increase to melee agro generation is still more useful than a few AC or HP, it's just that with the smaller relative benefit (compared to Warrior) the cost of a twink belt in the EC tunnel looks a lot steeper from the knight perspective.

Aggro isn't really an issue for a paladin. Not having the ac/hp to take a mob is.

At least, I never had any problems, at all, ever, with aggro. Maybe at this stage in the game (pre-velious, pre-luclin, pre-pop) it's different. Paladins do still have stun, flash of light, and taunt, right?


As for warriors, well, I thought we were talking about paladins? I never played a warrior, so I couldn't tell you what it's like for them. I see a lot of warriors with a lot of great dps gear doing a shit job holding aggro. I guess you're never going to outdps the people in your group whose job is "do dps" so, I dunno, seems like kind of a weird thing to try to stack up. Seems like the real aggro comes from proc items, which have nothing to do with your haste.

[Danth]

As a Paladin, if you solo or duo you'll want haste. No other stat (aside from having a nice weapon) will improve your killing power as much. If you group, you can live without it and in truth probably won't even notice lacking haste.

Danth

[Shamalam]

Originally Posted by Kekephee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seems like the real aggro comes from proc items, which have nothing to do with your haste.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but doesn't more attacks = more procs? Seems like haste would affect it in that regard, unless there is something like a set number of procs per minute regardless of number of attacks?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Originally Posted by Shamalam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but doesn't more attacks = more procs? Seems like haste would affect it in that regard, unless there is something like a set number of procs per minute regardless of number of attacks?

It's not a dumb question but it is a misconception.

You proc x rate per minute based on Dex and base proc mod% for the wep (which should now be properly set to 0 during this era) regardless of the number of swings.

Used to be a pretty OP strat to have a Barbarian Spiritist Hammer, slow yourself and melee every 10 seconds or whatever between jbb casts or med ticks. You effectively proc'd 50% of the time.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Kekephee

I see a lot of warriors with a lot of great dps gear doing a shit job holding aggro. I guess you're never going to outdps the people in your group whose job is "do dps" so, I dunno, seems like kind of a weird thing to try to stack up. Seems like the real aggro comes from proc items, which have nothing to do with your haste.

Kaev is totally correct here. Something like 2/3 of a warrior's threat comes from swings; more haste = more swings. Procs just get the credit because they have a tendency to vault the warrior 'over the top' as it were. Also warriors can do 80-90% of a monk's dps when well geared, so that isn't trivial either.

Originally Posted by Kekephee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aggro isn't really an issue for a paladin. Not having the ac/hp to take a mob is.

I mean what belt would you wear that has such awesome tanking stats? BiS for stats is an RBG, which has 27% haste. I mean if a paladin is wearing banded in his other slots to save up for an FBSS he's probably doing it wrong, but really paladin gear advice is the same as every other melee class: grind it out to 46, join a guild, get a fuckton of planar armor including a 41% haste belt from Sky.

[kaev]

When you're stuck soloing it helps by increasing the chance the mob will die before you fall asleep at the keyboard. Likewise when you're in a group without any decent damage dealers. Other than that, upgrading your damage output from terrible to mostly terrible doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Haste is strictly the cherry on top for a sensible (i.e. grouping) Paladin. Make sure you've got a top quality banana (weapon), plenty of ice-cream (AC), as much whipped cream (HP) as you can get, and maybe some tasty crushed nuts & candy sprinkles (resists, esp. MR), before you worry too much about the cherry on top. Hell, having a good 1-hander+shield combo in addition to your primary 2-hander (or vice versa) is likely to be more useful than haste.

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Things die faster. Its kinda a big deal.

Sadly, you're not going to see much of anything die noticeably faster from a ~1% (or less [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) increase you'd see in a good group's damage output.

[Erati]

just get a Mithril 2 hander

its like super cheap ( maybe around 500 plat or less ) and has haste on it !

its actually a great sword to level up with as your 2hander

[Raavak]

Haste items are expensive. As a hybrid and you are looking to buy I'd wait until you can afford the good stuff and not settle on a FBSS or Sash of the Dragonborn. You'll get more bang for your buck with other items. And don't wear like a Hangman's Noose or Swirlspine Belt at all unless soloing or something... the haste is so low on those they are near useless (even then a TBB might be better).

[Mirana]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haste items are expensive. As a hybrid and you are looking to buy I'd wait until you can afford the good stuff and not settle on a FBSS or Sash of the Dragonborn. You'll get more bang for your buck with other items. And don't wear like a Hangman's Noose or Swirlspine Belt at all unless soloing or something... the haste is so low on those they are near useless (even then a TBB might be better).

Disagree with basically everything you've said. Buying an FBSS, even if it isn't the "optimal" purchase, does nothing to set you back, because it can always be resold.

Hangman's noose is 17% haste, which is a 17% increase in melee dps, which is nowhere near useless. TBB will not give you even half that dps increase.