PVP Talks tonight decide Red99 fate

[Old_PVP]

Everything good has already been suggested somewhere else throughout this forum's history. In short, make the server closer to either a Rallos Zek or Sullon Zek type ruleset, with everything that entails.


EXP LOSS/TEAMS

If there is exp loss with pvp, then add teams. People are here for the pvp, not to grind back boring PvE exp. Exp loss in pvp is a big turn off early on, and it causes new people to quit more often than not. Teams provide a little extra security at the low levels with zone control and allies to group with, and keeps new people here just long enough that they get invested in their character. Sullon had exp loss with exp bonus in PvE, but teams are also required for this model to work I think.

ITEM LOOT

Whether it is a FFA or team based server, I think item loot is a great mechanic in order to keep people in line. I know this is an unpopular idea to many people, but there are a ton of benefits to item loot, that believe it or not are all healthy to a pvp server.

1.) It allows the underdogs of the server the potential to make a difference and affect the top guilds.
2.) It adds an extra edge of excitement and thrill to the game that you would not get otherwise.
3.) There is no pvp adrenaline rush that compares to possibly losing some of your gear.
4.) It cuts back on overpowered twinks.
5.) It allows undergeared, lower level players to band together and employ guerrilla warfare tactics to devastating effect, and actually cause serious consequences and monetary loss to otherwise untouchable people.
6.) Keeps the economy in check, no longer will droppables, rare or common, be ridiculously overpriced.
7.) Bragging rights, and we all know half the fun of pvp is the trash talk, both before and after.


Developers/GMs read this and take notes: Item loot is without a doubt, the most hardcore PVP mechanic that can be introduced on a server, and has been proven to survive and thrive in PVP communities. (Disregarding stupidly hardcore rulesets such as Discord, that just went full retard, and didn't last very long.)

I see some people saying that "item loot would be the death of the server/population". When there is no evidence that would suggest this. Sullon Zek had the lowest population on live, and they had EXP LOSS in pvp, without item loot. Rallos Zek started it all with being the first pvp server in EQ, and they were a thriving server full of guild wars all throughout it's history. And before someone starts flaming, I know SZ, TZ/VZ all had some badass PVP as well, I participated heavily in SZ particularly. (They were also team based, and thats an entirely different issue) My point is that item loot enriched, not destroyed, the pvp experience. There is actually more evidence to suggest this than there is otherwise.

Just take a look at Ultima Online, arguably one of the best pvp games of all time. Now take a trip down memory lane to some of your old pvp fights on Rallos Zek. (if you are oldschool enough) What made the pvp so memorable and exciting, and sometimes terrifying in both of these games? ITEM LOOT

The potential to lose your gear, completely changes the atmosphere of the game world. It's a sobering concept that changes attitudes, and ultimately is essential in creating the pk/anti-pk environment that we all love.

You all want to relive classic EQ? Well start with making memories, as gay as that sounds. Some of my most unforgettable gaming moments were focused around item loot and guild wars, political turmoil, and backstabbing. Item loot creates the best stories, and great pvp stories attracts new blood to the server. People will hear a story and think about how they want to get in on the fun.

No where else will you be able to loot a Fungi Tunic off anything besides the Myconid Spore King.

No where else will someone get blacklisted and shunned by the community for opportunistic pking a member of their own group to steal a FBSS.

No where else will you see players hastily bagging their gear, hoping not to be blinded before they die.

No where else will you be able to band together with others to take down an overpowered, overtwinked character, and truly make them pay.

No where else will you have an economy that doesn't get too big and out of control and over inflated.

No where else will the pk/anti-pk dynamic exist, other than an item loot server.

No where else do reputations matter more.

No where else will the underdogs stand a chance.

Item loot is absolutely essential to FFA pvp, and will save this server, one shiny loot at a time.

Sorry for the book. Wipe the server clean, start fresh, and start with item loot or teams, or better yet...BOTH. Most of us that are posting suggestions want to see this server succeed, because it is potentially one of the best options for free MMO pvp out there. Some may not have any "red99 history" but we do have years and years of PVP history from all walks of MMORPGs. This isn't our first rodeo, and this isn't 1999. Most of us aren't noobs anymore. We know what works and what makes PVP great, and item loot works and TEAMS definitely work...even in EverQuest.

Get with the program and turn red99 into something worthy of remembrance.

Just the 2 coppers of an old pvper.

[Loto]

Originally Posted by Old_PVP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything good has already been suggested somewhere else throughout this forum's history. In short, make the server closer to either a Rallos Zek or Sullon Zek type ruleset, with everything that entails.


EXP LOSS/TEAMS

If there is exp loss with pvp, then add teams. People are here for the pvp, not to grind back boring PvE exp. Exp loss in pvp is a big turn off early on, and it causes new people to quit more often than not. Teams provide a little extra security at the low levels with zone control and allies to group with, and keeps new people here just long enough that they get invested in their character. Sullon had exp loss with exp bonus in PvE, but teams are also required for this model to work I think.

ITEM LOOT

Whether it is a FFA or team based server, I think item loot is a great mechanic in order to keep people in line. I know this is an unpopular idea to many people, but there are a ton of benefits to item loot, that believe it or not are all healthy to a pvp server.

1.) It allows the underdogs of the server the potential to make a difference and affect the top guilds.
2.) It adds an extra edge of excitement and thrill to the game that you would not get otherwise.
3.) There is no pvp adrenaline rush that compares to possibly losing some of your gear.
4.) It cuts back on overpowered twinks.
5.) It allows undergeared, lower level players to band together and employ guerrilla warfare tactics to devastating effect, and actually cause serious consequences and monetary loss to otherwise untouchable people.
6.) Keeps the economy in check, no longer will droppables, rare or common, be ridiculously overpriced.
7.) Bragging rights, and we all know half the fun of pvp is the trash talk, both before and after.


Developers/GMs read this and take notes: Item loot is without a doubt, the most hardcore PVP mechanic that can be introduced on a server, and has been proven to survive and thrive in PVP communities. (Disregarding stupidly hardcore rulesets such as Discord, that just went full retard, and didn't last very long.)

I see some people saying that "item loot would be the death of the server/population". When there is no evidence that would suggest this. Sullon Zek had the lowest population on live, and they had EXP LOSS in pvp, without item loot. Rallos Zek started it all with being the first pvp server in EQ, and they were a thriving server full of guild wars all throughout it's history. And before someone starts flaming, I know SZ, TZ/VZ all had some badass PVP as well, I participated heavily in SZ particularly. (They were also team based, and thats an entirely different issue) My point is that item loot enriched, not destroyed, the pvp experience. There is actually more evidence to suggest this than there is otherwise.

Just take a look at Ultima Online, arguably one of the best pvp games of all time. Now take a trip down memory lane to some of your old pvp fights on Rallos Zek. (if you are oldschool enough) What made the pvp so memorable and exciting, and sometimes terrifying in both of these games? ITEM LOOT

The potential to lose your gear, completely changes the atmosphere of the game world. It's a sobering concept that changes attitudes, and ultimately is essential in creating the pk/anti-pk environment that we all love.

You all want to relive classic EQ? Well start with making memories, as gay as that sounds. Some of my most unforgettable gaming moments were focused around item loot and guild wars, political turmoil, and backstabbing. Item loot creates the best stories, and great pvp stories attracts new blood to the server. People will hear a story and think about how they want to get in on the fun.

No where else will you be able to loot a Fungi Tunic off anything besides the Myconid Spore King.

No where else will someone get blacklisted and shunned by the community for opportunistic pking a member of their own group to steal a FBSS.

No where else will you see players hastily bagging their gear, hoping not to be blinded before they die.

No where else will you be able to band together with others to take down an overpowered, overtwinked character, and truly make them pay.

No where else will you have an economy that doesn't get too big and out of control and over inflated.

No where else will the pk/anti-pk dynamic exist, other than an item loot server.

No where else do reputations matter more.

No where else will the underdogs stand a chance.

Item loot is absolutely essential to FFA pvp, and will save this server, one shiny loot at a time.

Sorry for the book. Wipe the server clean, start fresh, and start with item loot or teams, or better yet...BOTH. Most of us that are posting suggestions want to see this server succeed, because it is potentially one of the best options for free MMO pvp out there. Some may not have any "red99 history" but we do have years and years of PVP history from all walks of MMORPGs. This isn't our first rodeo, and this isn't 1999. Most of us aren't noobs anymore. We know what works and what makes PVP great, and item loot works and TEAMS definitely work...even in EverQuest.

Get with the program and turn red99 into something worthy of remembrance.

Just the 2 coppers of an old pvper.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. However, the hardest objective in this whole endeavor is to convince the admin that wiping is a better option than leaving it alone.

Frankly, once that decision has been made, the followup will move right along. If the server is going to be wiped and everyone knows it, the people not interested in a fresh box will bounce, leaving only the people interested in a fresh box to decide what kind of ruleset will be employed. If the server won't be wiped, then the people who want a fresh start will exit stage left, and leave behind the people who want to maintain the status quo.

Personally? I want to see neckbeards squabbling over a DRT in crushbone the same way the orcs did in LOTR when Frodo was imprisoned. Because that's what I imagine neckbeards to look like, and I want to see that squabble in person (in pixel? voxel?).

Wipe the box, turn item loot on, throw in exp loss - lets see some tears. But at the same time, turn up the xp so all the action doesnt happen in the city zones

[Colgate]

knowing the fact that tune has logged into his account over 2700 times from the same computer and nizzar has logged into his account over 2100 times from the same computer, i'd love to see a wipe

[nabsev]

where are those numbers coming from?

[Colgate]

Originally Posted by nabsev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

where are those numbers coming from?

from the GM's mouth that told them to me

[runlvlzero]

Well... you could start with the origins or math.

Computational theory and physics/chemistry.

Internet structure.

Or go off the philosophical and existential deep end.

[runlvlzero]

I'm pretty sure we could tie in the fate of Ghengis Khan, and an ant in a slaves cot somewhere into the grand epic tale spanning millenia, multiple universes, and a great time travel paradox to arrive at them.

[abacab-winner]

Lol.

Blaming the ruleset/server because players willingly choose to join Nizzar's guild is like blaming the neighbors kids because little Johnny is smoking crack; the accountability lies with the players for how the server turned out...

Sorry pals, but you're playing with a group of people that value loot over friendships, challenges, and action, so don't blame the dopeman because the population can't help but get their weekly VP fix.

[lite]

Originally Posted by abacab-winner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol.

Blaming the ruleset/server because players willingly choose to join Nizzar's guild is like blaming the neighbors kids because little Johnny is smoking crack; the accountability lies with the players for how the server turned out...

Sorry pals, but you're playing with a group of people that value loot over friendships, challenges, and action, so don't blame the dopeman because the population can't help but get their weekly VP fix.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that's just it. The fact that some people are weaker than others when it comes to their pixel need, that is a factor. However, those would stick around a little longer in the 2nd tier guild if there was the occasional trakanon kill yielded from it spawning during a jug farm session, Rather than at Exact o clock for nihilum's already present 40 + army.

[abacab-winner]

Originally Posted by lite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that's just it. The fact that some people are weaker than others when it comes to their pixel need, that is a factor. However, those would stick around a little longer in the 2nd tier guild if there was the occasional trakanon kill yielded from it spawning during a jug farm session, Rather than at Exact o clock for nihilum's already present 40 + army.

Nihlium didn't ALWAYS have a zerg force capable of doing that, that was formed over time because Nihlium was waay more devoted, organized, and didn't have a caustic group of players dedicated to griefing as its core.

You got gun smoked not in PvP, you just got out-classed, out-lead, out-raided.