A question to everyone not in TMO/IB.....

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's provide insight into Neitche's understanding of "competition":
1) Neitche joined TMO after IB left the server.
2) Neitche is not on the pull or train force of TMO, and so sits in raid with everyone else waiting for the pixel-holder to be brought to them.
3) Neitche left BDA when VD merged with BDA because Neitche did not like the "hardcore assholes" VD was bringing to BDA.
4) Neitche joined TMO months after VP had been opened, and months after the original TMO already had BiS outside VP.

Neitche, every single TMO asserts IB provided more stiff competition than FE ever did. So either you don't know competition, or ever other TMO member is wrong, take your pick.

Or you're an idiot.

[Widan]

Originally Posted by Bantam 1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And just beat TMO at their own game?

You mean sacrificing real life for everquest? Most people would prefer not to do that.

[kylok]

Originally Posted by Widan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You mean sacrificing real life for everquest?

Shit's classic

[Bantam 1]

Originally Posted by Widan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You mean sacrificing real life for everquest? Most people would prefer not to do that.

If you don't have a decent amount of time to raid anyway.. how are you going to raid?


EQ raiding isn't hard in terms of killing the boss itself... so if you put out tokens EVERYONE would be decked in no time.

The hard part in EQ was always mobilization.

How is no training going to really help in VP? Is this just an issue of one raid guild being bigger than the other? If so see the original point.

I think you're all good people... I just think everyone needs to be honest with their intentions and be honest about where their priorities are.


If you really want to open up the raid scene you're going to have to counter whoever the top dog is. Stopping VP training seems just like a bandaid.


The reason why any top dog guild is so successful is partly because the people apping believe they are truly the only game in town to raid. When other guilds just throw up their hands going "we ain't got no time fo that" you're just enforcing it.... so if all the people who really want to raid are going to the top dog guild; then why are you trying to fight with them over spawns?

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Bantam 1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do any of your guilds have people who could actually raid if given the chance?

I don't think you realize there are like 8 raid capable guilds on this server

[Bantam 1]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think you realize there are like 8 raid capable guilds on this server

Then what's the issue? TMO just kills everything first? Or is the will just not there?


I need to get to sleep.

[Legend]

another lowbie playing forum quest with no idea whats going on end game

/fantasy

its fun to imagine and dream

[Bantam 1]

Originally Posted by Legend [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

another lowbie playing forum quest with no idea whats going on end game

/fantasy

its fun to imagine and dream

Yep because I've never raided before. Nope never seen raid drama in any of the games I've played for the last 14 years....

I mean .. geez what's it like playing up there with the stars? Gosh I'm just awe struck personally.

Seriously going to sleep I got an 8:30 meeting [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Bantam 1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then what's the issue? TMO just kills everything first? Or is the will just not there?


I need to get to sleep.

Combination of both, really.

1, TMO out mobilizes
2, TMO has more experience
3, TMO has a larger, more well equipped raid force

As it stands, with variance and extended variance, guilds that are !TMO need to sit at a spawn for 1-x many hours (where x can be quite large), of which is stupendously boring. So when people don't want to do this, they need to beat TMO at #1, which is pretty damned difficult if not impossible unless we're camped at the mob.

Some guilds have adopted the strategy of raiding zones when bosses go into late window. Farm loots, get a shot at a boss, no sitting around required. Way more often than not, the boss won't pop. No biggy. If the boss does pop, the smaller guild gets a shot.

However, due to general lack of experience with the mob (mostly newer folk or what have you -- I'm one of them!), coupled with the necessity to engage/kill a mob instantly, smaller guilds wipe. You're basically tossed the basketball while not facing the net and have to make the shot immediately. If you miss, you lost the mob.

Sit through this for a few weeks and people get burnt out and don't want to raid.

Remove non-classic silly things (like variance), and more guilds get a shot at a mob on a weekly basis. Experience goes up. Players less likely to burn out due to actually seeing/engaging mobs.

EQ raiding on live was hardcore enough -- needing to devote time at strange hours to kill mobs. P99 is the same way just far more amplified.

It doesn't help that the raid scene is just down right toxic. Due to people absolutely needing to rush you see unintentional trains, which are almost always seen as intentional by opposing forces. Rules get skirted to increase the likelihood of loot. People get pixel hungry and turn into outright dildos.

Your suggestion to form an alliance might sound good on paper, but in practice it's something that is going to take a serious effort to be even mildly effective. It's certainly not something that is going to happen overnight. People need to be geared appropriately for raids, they need to have mobilization items, they need practice.

Lets assume, for the sake of argument, that everyone non-TMO guild takes their best raiders and throws them together to form a super team of raiders. None of them are VP keyed.

1) They need Traks. They need to dump $$ into PR gear. They need to be more or less camped out at poop mountain with everyone on a batphone, willing to neglect whatever is happening in their life, or they all need to be sitting at their computers for hours on end ready to go. Lets say they get a Trak. They get 4 teeth. Now they need to do it again, 10x times or so. TMO is going to notice their efforts and place more effort into Trak. Even if players are totally okay with dealing with all of this, it's still something that takes a tremendous amount of time.

Lets assume all of the non TMO folks that are VP keyed get together and form an alliance to do VP. They all enter VP. Bam, train straight to the dick. They're fighting an uphill battle. Say they overcome the trains and get themselves into VP. They start moving around to get a dragon. One person wipes them with a well placed train. Now they need to CR in the shittiest place to do a CR. Now they're up against TMO strengths 1-3 AND they need to combat trains.

So really people will argue against these rules as it is just another thing that helps distance TMO from them, far more so than what would occur on a truly classic experience. Also note that on classic there were very frequent patches with full respawns, which was usually enough to give the smaller guilds something cool to do.

TL;DR
The raid scene is toxic as fuck
A huge gap would need to be closed for anyone to overcome TMO, even if forming an alliance
People hate variance and trains because it helps TMO remain on top, and it's just another hurdle they need to overcome
Easier to just app to TMO if you want pixels

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by Bantam 1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep because I've never raided before. Nope never seen raid drama in any of the games I've played for the last 14 years....

I mean .. geez what's it like playing up there with the stars? Gosh I'm just awe struck personally.

Seriously going to sleep I got an 8:30 meeting [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You act as if you were the only one who played for the last 14 years. Fact is, you can't begin to imagine how toxic end game is before trying it. It goes way beyond outmobilizing competition inside the game. Unless you're ready to cheat, train with untagged accounts, RL stalk people, forumquest, make sure most people in your team own multiple accounts to park them at different targets and work your way into staff's favors, have enough people to track 24/7, don't even bother [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fact is, most raid capable players don't want to play like this. It's not classic.