Game Mechanics: Rog Sneak / Hide

[Classic]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please move to resolved, it's working as intended

Oh I see your on the staff now. I invite you to go read http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/index.php

Come back and tell me it's working as intended.

These devs intend this server to be as close to classic as they can get.

This is less classic than launch for rogues.

[koros]

If rogues are getting seen by regular see invis mobs, something is wrong.

I played a rogue on live from early Kunark forward and could get to places many other classes could not get with invis. Rare see invis mobs of any type could see rogues, and some mob types could always see through hide. Certain zones had a lot of mobs that could see through it... plane of hate/Tov/deep Kael.

Just checked the safehouse for reference and this confirms it:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=2855

List of Creatures That Can See Through Hide
Dragons (Vox and Nagafen)
Fire Giants
Scorn Banshees
Lichs
Loathing Lichs
Evil Eyes
Huge Elemental (Lower Guk)

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=2852

Forsaken Revanant, Male - undead Magician - They look like male vampires and have normal magic resistance. They also cast a mean damage shield and nasty AE direct damage. Undead magic does work. They drop mage gear. They do not see rogues, but do see normal invis. They have normal aggro range.

I don't play a rogue here, but comeon, this is fundamental stuff...

[NotKringe]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If rogues are getting seen by regular see invis mobs, something is wrong.

I played a rogue on live from early Kunark forward and could get to places many other classes could not get with invis. Rare see invis mobs of any type could see rogues, and some mob types could always see through hide. Certain zones had a lot of mobs that could see through it... plane of hate/Tov/deep Kael.

Just checked the safehouse for reference and this confirms it:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=2855

List of Creatures That Can See Through Hide
Dragons (Vox and Nagafen)
Fire Giants
Scorn Banshees
Lichs
Loathing Lichs
Evil Eyes
Huge Elemental (Lower Guk)

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=2852

Forsaken Revanant, Male - undead Magician - They look like male vampires and have normal magic resistance. They also cast a mean damage shield and nasty AE direct damage. Undead magic does work. They drop mage gear. They do not see rogues, but do see normal invis. They have normal aggro range.

I don't play a rogue here, but comeon, this is fundamental stuff...

Yes that looks a lot of what seems correct, Nilbog can you please verify this as a source of correct info?

[koros]

Bumping because this is dumb and should be fixed.

[Dullah]

Rogues could always go places invis + ivu couldn't take you. I mean, its common knowledge to anyone who played that era and was over the age of like 15. That post above pretty much spot on from what I remember. I didn't play a rogue, but I remember them doing CRs and dragging corpses in seb and sneaking down to our groups past mobs that saw invis. I mean, who doesn't remember when you died in a shitty place having two options, summon corpse or get a rogue to drag it. Obviously that wouldn't have been the case if invis would have served the same as rogue sneak/hide.

[Vandy]

From the above safehouse link as well
http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=2852

Originally Posted by TheSafeHouse

Spite Golem - Shaman, casts SOW and alacrity on nearby mobs, has a pet. Drops Runed Etched armor (shaman), a Runewood Shield (druid) or a shaman shield. I, personally, have never seen one of those shields. Scowls at a sneaking rogue, but does not see them. 100% spell resistant to all but poison/disease based spells.

Scorn Banshee - Warrior, drops Imbrued Platemail Armor (bard) and occasionally Martune Rapier (8/23 +5 str +4 agi if I remember correctly, bard only). Warning: Cons indifferent, but DOES SEE sneaking rogues. Undead (female zombie). Do strong disease.

Loathling Liches - Wizards, see sneaking rogues, usually drop nothing but sometimes a rod of souls - 3 charges drain souls. Undead, spectres.

So in hate the only thing that should see a rogue would be Banshee, Lich, and Maestro.
I think Inny see Invis/ITU but does NOT see rogue hide/sneak

[koros]

If you weren't a rogue and you hid you got normal invis.

If you were a rogue and hid you got better invis. It's possible, although not the way that I recall it, that you needed to sneak at the same time for that to take effect. When I played I'm pretty sure I usually hit them both at once so who knows.

Patch from very early 2000 added IVU to rogue hide but not normal hide. This goes to support my claim that rogue hide was coded innately differently.

I posit that it was probably coded such that each mob that spawned did a check of whether it could not, could, or always did see (normal) invis. If it could/always did a see invis, it probably did a rand and if the result was within a certain range it could see rogues too. This was probably tweaked on a per mob type basis. Kobolds never saw rogue invis. While 25% of the time running through seb I'd encounter a see invis froglok.