Fulll Group looking for advice

[skacat]

SK would be a better tank. it'll be hard to keep aggro off the rogue and the caster as a pally. and also the cleric once they're healing the caster.

Mage is fine for the caster, but an enchanter would probably be better for CC, which is essential in dungeons. The dru/shm can root, but that's pretty weak CC compared to a mez. Since you have a bard, getting a lot of melee is not a bad idea (haste), but that'll make it even harder for the pally to hold aggro.

I think the shm is a lot stronger for a group than a druid, unless you really want ports. I think you could probably live without them. since it sounds like you'll be playing this group pretty casually once a week.

I'd start everyone in the same city as you suggested to make it easier to get started. Freeport would be better because that'll give you a lot more dungeons close by (befallen, guk, najena), as well as other higher levels around to give the newbs a glance at the lootz. if you'd rather start in qey id think about how to move your party out east eventually, could be a fun run once you're sick of BB.

faydwer is usually more crowded (CB and unrest) and I think you'll be fine in Antonica for awhile.

anyways sounds like fun, good luck to ya.

[lecompte]

If ya'll are only playing once a week, even if it is for one twelve hour stretch, a group with ATLEAST a 90% xp penalty is going to be really slow going and dishearten people who are newish to the game. Agro maybe a problem without a hybrid tank or some decent weapons but it should be workable. Sounds like your friend is set on bard, so I'd keep that and splash in an enchanter; can probably max haste on group at level 20 if the bard song stacks at that level (?) and stack mana regen too. In a group like this, wizard would be a pretty powerful class cause of the stacked mana regen -- should be able to deliver some decent dps and you get your ports.

warrior
bard
enc
clr
rogue
wiz

[thufir]

Originally Posted by lecompte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If ya'll are only playing once a week, even if it is for one twelve hour stretch, a group with ATLEAST a 90% xp penalty is going to be really slow going and dishearten people who are newish to the game.

Think the exact opposite here. Only people who have had a taste of going through the game without grouping with hybrids will even have a chance of noticing. In a full group the penalty is already dilute, and will be unnoticeable to newbies who have never known anything else anyway.

Being a warrior will also be demoralizing for a newbie party because of aggro control issues for multiple levels, especially untwinked. SK is easiest aggro because Disease Cloud is cheating, but Pal is fine too imo. SK also gives you the option of FD pulls later on to alleviate burden on bard/enc but I assume you prefer Paladins because you listed one.

Bard can be an acceptable substitute for an enchanter, but you will still miss one during downtime. Lack of clarity will hurt until 32 when the bards get clarity song.

Sticking as close as possible to your original setup, which I presume is there because that is the personal preference of the players involved, you get:

Human Paladin
Human Bard
Human Cleric
Human Wizard (instead of Magician - comparable dps, similar style, but comes with ports)
Barbarian Rogue
Barbarian Shaman

Easy for the barbs to join you Qeynos if they want, and around lvl 5ish you can start doing your full group in BB and do dungeons from there on out.

You could also let the wizard stay a magician, and turn the barb shaman into a human druid, but imo less good. Druids lose a lot of utility at higher levels. If you plan on sticking this out, the Shaman will get better along the same kind of curve where the Druid gets worse and let you do cooler things in harder dungeons.

Originally Posted by Verityn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's good to know and I hope others agree. I just feel like I'd be happier being a medium size race if I'm going to spend a lot of time in guk and other dungeons with narrow corridors.

Yes, +1 for ogre sk, but I am biased. If your setup has a Shaman, you will never notice being huge. Shrink ftw. The immunity to frontal bash-stun + the slam is really too good to pass up. I spend as much of my time in dungeons as is ogrely possible, fwiw.

I noticed later on in the thread that you are opening yourself up to the possibility of a more Eastern Antonican style of setup, so...

Ogre Shadowknight
Ogre Shaman
Doesn't matter Enchanter
Doesn't matter Cleric
Doesn't matter Wizard
Doesn't matter your choice of Rogue, Monk, or Bard

... would be more my personal preference. That covers all your bases by being effective both early and late without too much in the way of xp penalties or boredom. Rogues do amazing dps, and monks are great pullers with excellent dps, but a good bard adds a lot of utility and can really pull your fat out of the fire in a potentially disastrous situation, in a way an untwinked rogue or monk will probably not be able to.

I am sticking with the wizard for ports because long walks or a lot of port begging are really bad for people who might not have a ton of time to play. You already have two healers so a druid seems mostly superfluous, and the wizard's mana issues will be alleviated by constant access to clarity. If you really don't care about half hour boat rides or long cross country runs, many other classes are fine here as well - magician, whichever of rogue/bard/monk you didn't take for slot 6, maybe a ranger if you are excited about the possibility of an offtank w/ dps, etc.

[Droog007]

I like the idea of starting in Qeynos if you've got a ready-made group. It is very under-utilized because there's no critical mass there... Fall in love with the game [again] in a vacuum. It will make some of the buttholes in the Freeport area easier to ignore.

Definitely recommend SHM and ENC. Ports are convenient, but there's a thriving industry on this server for that.

[Frieza_Prexus]

It sounds like your group is going to be in the low levels for quite a while, so I'd recommend convenience over high end utility. For example, if you're going to be in Sebilis doing Juggs, a shaman would be vastly preferable to a druid. If you're going to spend a lot of time as lowbies a druid would be very comparable, and the ports would be incredibly convenient.

It's great that you have a bard, but I have to agree that an enchanter would make things way easier. Your DPS will go up due to haste, clarity + bard song will be huge, and the CC is self-explanatory.

You'll have some trouble holding aggro as a paladin, but it's doable. As others suggested, you can combine multiple roles into one class. If you went SK, you'd be able to FD pull and tank with great aggro. Since you'll likely be at the lower levels for a while even a ranger would be a viable tank choice. With an enchanter and bard to feed the cleric mana, you could actually fare pretty well as one.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With an enchanter and bard to feed the cleric mana, you could actually fare pretty well as one.

actually, bard doesn't even get mana song until 32. 20 after velius, tho. so if you're making recommendations for low end, mana song is moot.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It sounds like your group is going to be in the low levels for quite a while, so I'd recommend convenience over high end utility. For example, if you're going to be in Sebilis doing Juggs, a shaman would be vastly preferable to a druid. If you're going to spend a lot of time as lowbies a druid would be very comparable, and the ports would be incredibly convenient.

It's great that you have a bard, but I have to agree that an enchanter would make things way easier. Your DPS will go up due to haste, clarity + bard song will be huge, and the CC is self-explanatory.

You'll have some trouble holding aggro as a paladin, but it's doable. As others suggested, you can combine multiple roles into one class. If you went SK, you'd be able to FD pull and tank with great aggro. Since you'll likely be at the lower levels for a while even a ranger would be a viable tank choice. With an enchanter and bard to feed the cleric mana, you could actually fare pretty well as one.

This, +1

Although I don't understand all the people placing paladin agro orders of magnitude below SK's when that hasn't been my experience. Flash of light and disease cloud are in the same ballpark, and that's before stun. I've never seen a capable paladin struggle with agro. If you're going to go with a hybrid, SK or Pal, you've got plenty of things to worry about. Agro isn't one of them.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Flash of light and disease cloud are in the same ballpark, and that's before stun.

some paladins don't know how to use flash of light, probably resulting in mobs streaking across the entire zone and ending in righteous trains, so they're afraid to use it and stop using it all together.

[Verityn]

Thanks guys for the great feedback. I'm going to try to address everything at once instead of specific comments.

I feel a lot less obligated to roll all human in qeynos now and I'm starting to doubt my paladin. I just love BB and the aqueducts but I guess by level 15 we're going to be making the long trek to freeport anyways. Maybe level up in High Pass for a bit. I've always wanted to play a paladin or sk for one and having a full group seems to be a great opportunity to play one with as little pain as possible. The way I figure the math the exp penalty won't be that bad when spread out among each member and with a zone bonus. Perhaps if we shoot for Freeport instead I'll be a human or dark elf shadowknight, qeynos makes it a bit harder to play one. Plus I just don't think I could find fun playing a plain warrior even if I would be more powerful as an Ogre Warrior.

I thought maybe an enchanter and bard might overlap too much but I guess not and my sister, one of the people playing, wanted to be one. As for race it's basically 3 sets of couples so if we do play different races we'll want to do in groups of two or three.

Here's my more varied idea because the more I think about it variety in our races could make it more enjoyable.

Dark Elf SK (Can this guy even tank with[out] twink gear? It couldn't much worse than a human sk...but could it?)
Dark Elf Cleric
Human Enchanter
Human Bard
Wood Elf Druid
Wood Elf Rogue

The last two could probably be debated endlessly with all the choices and I think I'll leave it a bit up to the players. We can live without ports, but I still like druids as back up heals/dps. A shaman could be annoying for these new players since they'll have to travel a bit to get their spells and I'm going to veto ogres/trolls because of how awkward they are in some dungeons.


Any other advice would be greatly appreciated of course.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Verityn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Human Enchanter

worst possible stats as a chanter. dark elfs start just down the road and can move freely about in freeport if they're agnostic. no benefit whatsoever to starting as human.

Originally Posted by Verityn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wood Elf Rogue

also worst possible stats as a rogue. at least pick half-elf instead. gnomes and dorfs also start really close by.