Server/Classic Observations

[Arclanz]

I'm glad you reminded me. I quit mid kunark (no one was in skyfire yet). In Chardock, a shield dropped; and I got into an argument with an enchanter over it. I wanted a paladin in the group (not me) to get it. He was arguing that a shaman in his group wanted it for "resist" purposes.

As I was the multi-group leader, I dictated that the Paladin got it and also informed everyone that I was quitting EQ due to what I saw as increasing greed. I did quit, but like everyone else returned shortly thereafter. But things were never the same.

So I've come a long way to succumb to the GBN point of view.

Just like this site defines what a camp is; I think they should also define that ALL groups are greed-rolling unless the group members involved vote otherwise. In the case of ties, greed-rolling wins out.

[Dersk]

Originally Posted by theguyy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To me this is disgraceful and greed of this magnitude doesn't belong in classic EQ.

I get the feeling that if it didn't affect your loot, you wouldn't care what kind of system the group used. That's not intended as an insult or a dismissal, but that kind of outrage over a looting system has always struck me as suspicious.

It's better for a server to always be NBG than having someone swap between NBG and 'greed' groups and getting shafted in the process, true. It's more fun for someone to be able to earn and loot their own equipment than having to trade for it. This does not make people that insist on 'greed' rolls somehow less virtuous than those that demand loot rights for the items they can equip.

NBG assumes that:
a) the person needing it actually needs it as an upgrade as opposed to simply being able to use it
b) the person needing it won't sell it when a superior upgrade is obtained.
c) the person needing it will get more use out of the item than another group member will get use out of a different item obtained through trade.

A warrior with a obsidian shards that 'needs' a yak is just as greedy as the shadowknight using a brutechopper that wants to roll on a yak so he can trade it for a dark reaver or mithril two hander. Assessing need strictly on a can-equip basis is not a perfect system, and the hate for people that dare to use a different system is spawned by the very greed that is being attacked.

A particular situation that exacerbates the problems with NBG systems comes into play with Kunark and Velious where casters see several spells that can only be accessed through defeating raid targets while seeing predominately melee-oriented loot drops in groups. While this is certainly arguable, it is much easier for a melee to substitute group gear for raid gear than it is a caster to substitute for raid gear and raid spells, and NBG rolls ignore that problem because the wizard can't use the jaundiced bone bracer or whatever.

I've turned down loot rights based on NBG because it wasn't enough of an upgrade and I would have sold it rather than use it (and lost the roll). I've won greed rolls and let someone else in the group loot it because that person 'needed' it. If that makes me a greedy person because I used 'greed' rolls in those instances where I didn't want to equip something, then I have a few choice expletives I'd like you to hear.

[Kazzok]

Originally Posted by Dersk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A particular situation that exacerbates the problems with NBG systems comes into play with Kunark and Velious where casters see several spells that can only be accessed through defeating raid targets while seeing predominately melee-oriented loot drops in groups. While this is certainly arguable, it is much easier for a melee to substitute group gear for raid gear than it is a caster to substitute for raid gear and raid spells, and NBG rolls ignore that problem because the wizard can't use the jaundiced bone bracer or whatever.

I've turned down loot rights based on NBG because it wasn't enough of an upgrade and I would have sold it rather than use it (and lost the roll). I've won greed rolls and let someone else in the group loot it because that person 'needed' it. If that makes me a greedy person because I used 'greed' rolls in those instances where I didn't want to equip something, then I have a few choice expletives I'd like you to hear.

QFT

I was a Wizard at that time, and this is so true. I killed many dragons and many juggs for months without seeing Sunstrike. Eventually, I bought it. Buying it is sometimes the only way you're ever gonna get it. And that means you've gotta get some loot to sell.

You know, my recollection of the classic-SoV era on live was that it was very melee-oriented, so maybe that NBG thing makes sense if you're into conspiracies [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[theguyy]

Originally Posted by Dersk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I get the feeling that if it didn't affect your loot, you wouldn't care what kind of system the group used. That's not intended as an insult or a dismissal, but that kind of outrage over a looting system has always struck me as suspicious.

It's better for a server to always be NBG than having someone swap between NBG and 'greed' groups and getting shafted in the process, true. It's more fun for someone to be able to earn and loot their own equipment than having to trade for it. This does not make people that insist on 'greed' rolls somehow less virtuous than those that demand loot rights for the items they can equip.

NBG assumes that:
a) the person needing it actually needs it as an upgrade as opposed to simply being able to use it
b) the person needing it won't sell it when a superior upgrade is obtained.
c) the person needing it will get more use out of the item than another group member will get use out of a different item obtained through trade.

A warrior with a obsidian shards that 'needs' a yak is just as greedy as the shadowknight using a brutechopper that wants to roll on a yak so he can trade it for a dark reaver or mithril two hander. Assessing need strictly on a can-equip basis is not a perfect system, and the hate for people that dare to use a different system is spawned by the very greed that is being attacked.

A particular situation that exacerbates the problems with NBG systems comes into play with Kunark and Velious where casters see several spells that can only be accessed through defeating raid targets while seeing predominately melee-oriented loot drops in groups. While this is certainly arguable, it is much easier for a melee to substitute group gear for raid gear than it is a caster to substitute for raid gear and raid spells, and NBG rolls ignore that problem because the wizard can't use the jaundiced bone bracer or whatever.

I've turned down loot rights based on NBG because it wasn't enough of an upgrade and I would have sold it rather than use it (and lost the roll). I've won greed rolls and let someone else in the group loot it because that person 'needed' it. If that makes me a greedy person because I used 'greed' rolls in those instances where I didn't want to equip something, then I have a few choice expletives I'd like you to hear.

Gotta love people justifying their own overwhelming greed.

[Pico]

Originally Posted by theguyy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gotta love people justifying their own overwhelming greed.

You're horrendously retarded if you can't see the logic in his post, and you honestly don't even understand what greed is. Are you 12 years old?

I've seen NBG abused so many times in Live by greedy people who didn't really need the item they were after. Yeah you can always say 'oh if you abuse the system you'll get a bad rep' but what's the point really? Rolling for items is a 100% fair system that can't be abused, and if any item worth more than 1k drops you can sure as shit bet that I'll be rolling on it.

That said, if the item is worth less than 1k or I'm playing with friends, NBG is fine by me.

[Zahasha]

Threads like this remind some of us old-time MMORPGers why we really shouldn't bother with this server/game with no built-in Need/Greed rolling system. This "I NEED that!!1" argument for an in-game item that can be sold by anybody in the group is just absurd. That FBSS that just dropped in our PuG can upgrade a heluva lot of my gear just as much as the melee that pull that self-righteous "I NEED that!!1" garbage. I'd say some selfish turd pulling the "Need" card would be much more likely to get a crappy reputation than the others in the group demanding that everybody roll for the valuable item that dropped.

Of course, as many above have said, in all-friend or guild groups NBG pretty much goes without saying. But I played more than enough years of EQ to see those "Need" kids get the FBSS by default, then be strangely "WTS FBSS 3K PP" in EC an hour later to never fall for that stuff again, and we all know lots of people on this server are 2-boxing with auction mules in EC all day and night long.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Pico [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if any item worth more than 1k drops you can sure as shit bet that I'll be rolling on it.

This.

Have seen people nbg on things like gcbs before and its ridiculous when 3k can buy a upgrade for most people in the group. It's not like any item is exceedingly rare enough to justify nbg in classic EQ, and if it is, it's usually nodrop.

[theguyy]

Originally Posted by Pico [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're horrendously retarded if you can't see the logic in his post, and you honestly don't even understand what greed is. Are you 12 years old?

I've seen NBG abused so many times in Live by greedy people who didn't really need the item they were after. Yeah you can always say 'oh if you abuse the system you'll get a bad rep' but what's the point really? Rolling for items is a 100% fair system that can't be abused, and if any item worth more than 1k drops you can sure as shit bet that I'll be rolling on it.

That said, if the item is worth less than 1k or I'm playing with friends, NBG is fine by me.

Lol Irony at it's very best. You e-rage about my statement about justifying greed then continue to banter on justifying greed. Hmmm NBG being abused more then Greed? Not a snowballs chance in hell. Hey guys Spell: Sunstrike dropped......sorry wizzies we are greeding this. Sounds fair to me.

Can you imagine a raid letting a rogue roll on a 2 hander just for the sake of fairness? It makes no more sense to do this in a group setting.

[Dersk]

Originally Posted by theguyy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey guys Spell: Sunstrike dropped......sorry wizzies we are greeding this. Sounds fair to me.

Can you imagine a raid letting a rogue roll on a 2 hander just for the sake of fairness? It makes no more sense to do this in a group setting.

So, according to your original post, 'greed' rolls that you're seeing in your groups are a horrible thing that are a blight upon the game, but to respond to critics you'll use what-ifs in raids that don't actually happen. Classy.

What piece of loot dropped that you thought you were entitled to that you didn't get? You sound like a butthurt warrior that didn't get his uB3r proccing weapon.

[Pico]

Originally Posted by theguyy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol Irony at it's very best. You e-rage about my statement about justifying greed then continue to banter on justifying greed. Hmmm NBG being abused more then Greed? Not a snowballs chance in hell. Hey guys Spell: Sunstrike dropped......sorry wizzies we are greeding this. Sounds fair to me.

Can you imagine a raid letting a rogue roll on a 2 hander just for the sake of fairness? It makes no more sense to do this in a group setting.

Greed is wanting excessive amounts or more than your fair share.

Please. Explain to me how wanting 1/6th of the loot you see drop (in the long run) is greedy. I dare you.

Hint: it's not possible.