Top WoW Raiding Guild Quits

[OforOppression]

you'll never get velious

and i was 6 watch your fucking mouth

[baub]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Psh..."Hardcore" wow raiders don't hold a candle to EQ raiders..live or emu. Have them go play in VT for 10+ hours straight or PoG and then we can talk about hardcore.

Valid point regardless tho =)

I raided on wow for 6 years and was GM of a raiding guild there during TBC era. So this isnt just wow hate.

Did you push content? I personally had some of those 10 hour days in AQ/Naxx40 when no one had any idea what to expect, other than getting your shit pushed in.. a lot.

I've also had those everlasting VT raids where you essentially tank n spank everything watching boss hp drop 2% every minute.

Care to guess which of these experiences was more "hardcore"? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[OforOppression]

but he lead a TBC era raiding guild and raided on wow for 6 years theres no way he can be wrong

[citizen1080]

I guess my point was eq was a greater time sink. Yes you could spend 10 hours in aq40, but at what point are you just banging your head against the wall? The content was not designed to take that long. I've spent 15+ hours in VT in one session. No we wernt raping the zone...but the raid was meant to take foooooorrrrrreeeeevvvvveeeeerrrrrr. Ssra was my fav zone of cats on the moon.

We pushed content in tbc, but other then that i was able to look up strats for later content.

[citizen1080]

Originally Posted by OforOppression [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but he lead a TBC era raiding guild and raided on wow for 6 years theres no way he can be wrong

Don't take out your small penisy angst on me youngster.

[Noselacri]

its not P99s fault

I would argue that it is P99's fault, and that their inability to deal with this problem is the reason the server has 700ish players at peak instead of 3000. So many people have left because they realized the ceiling is artificially low due to the fact that there's no endgame unless you join one or two particular guilds -- very exclusive guilds that demand unreasonable things of their players because that's how you "win" at Everquest.

The problem is that P99 tries to emulate everything about Everquest except one thing: there's only one server. Instead of 20+ servers on which the unhealthily obsessed hardcores can spread out, there's just one server, and their playstyle completely destroys the endgame for everyone else. Everquest doesn't have enough content for more than like one and a half raid guilds, but you could always move to a different server where the endgame hadn't yet been completely monopolized, or where there was room for you in the top guild.

This "feature" is completely missing in P99, and the result has been disastrous. It's the #1 problem of this server, the #1 reason for people quitting, and the cause of endless amounts of grief and conflict. GMs have quit over the constant abuse that results from this, entire guilds have collapsed, and I'd estimate that about 75% of the players who have reached the higher levels on P99 have consequently quit the server after discovering that the best they could hope for was to farm Sebilis and level alts.

Failure to compensate for this is the reason P99 has only ever been merely good instead of groundbreaking and amazing. It's such a strait-jacket on the server, and look at the result: people are starving for an alternative to the point of giving a criminally bad server like The Sleeper the chance that it never deserved. Every time a new server pops up, hundreds of people flee P99 with hopes of the new thing being a cure to exactly one problem: the clogged and monopolized endgame. It's only because no alternative of reasonable quality has ever presented itself that P99 still sees numbers in the high hundreds.

[citizen1080]

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would argue that it is P99's fault, and that their inability to deal with this problem is the reason the server has 700ish players at peak instead of 3000. So many people have left because they realized the ceiling is artificially low due to the fact that there's no endgame unless you join one or two particular guilds -- very exclusive guilds that demand unreasonable things of their players because that's how you "win" at Everquest.

The problem is that P99 tries to emulate everything about Everquest except one thing: there's only one server. Instead of 20+ servers on which the unhealthily obsessed hardcores can spread out, there's just one server, and their playstyle completely destroys the endgame for everyone else. Everquest doesn't have enough content for more than like one and a half raid guilds, but you could always move to a different server where the endgame hadn't yet been completely monopolized, or where there was room for you in the top guild.

This "feature" is completely missing in P99, and the result has been disastrous. It's the #1 problem of this server, the #1 reason for people quitting, and the cause of endless amounts of grief and conflict. GMs have quit over the constant abuse that results from this, entire guilds have collapsed, and I'd estimate that about 75% of the players who have reached the higher levels on P99 have consequently quit the server after discovering that the best they could hope for was to farm Sebilis and level alts.

Failure to compensate for this is the reason P99 has only ever been merely good instead of groundbreaking and amazing. It's such a strait-jacket on the server, and look at the result: people are starving for an alternative to the point of giving a criminally bad server like The Sleeper the chance that it never deserved. Every time a new server pops up, hundreds of people flee P99 with hopes of the new thing being a cure to exactly one problem: the clogged and monopolized endgame. It's only because no alternative of reasonable quality has ever presented itself that P99 still sees numbers in the high hundreds.

Well said sir

[Nune]

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would argue that it is P99's fault, and that their inability to deal with this problem is the reason the server has 700ish players at peak instead of 3000. So many people have left because they realized the ceiling is artificially low due to the fact that there's no endgame unless you join one or two particular guilds -- very exclusive guilds that demand unreasonable things of their players because that's how you "win" at Everquest.

The problem is that P99 tries to emulate everything about Everquest except one thing: there's only one server. Instead of 20+ servers on which the unhealthily obsessed hardcores can spread out, there's just one server, and their playstyle completely destroys the endgame for everyone else. Everquest doesn't have enough content for more than like one and a half raid guilds, but you could always move to a different server where the endgame hadn't yet been completely monopolized, or where there was room for you in the top guild.

This "feature" is completely missing in P99, and the result has been disastrous. It's the #1 problem of this server, the #1 reason for people quitting, and the cause of endless amounts of grief and conflict. GMs have quit over the constant abuse that results from this, entire guilds have collapsed, and I'd estimate that about 75% of the players who have reached the higher levels on P99 have consequently quit the server after discovering that the best they could hope for was to farm Sebilis and level alts.

Failure to compensate for this is the reason P99 has only ever been merely good instead of groundbreaking and amazing. It's such a strait-jacket on the server, and look at the result: people are starving for an alternative to the point of giving a criminally bad server like The Sleeper the chance that it never deserved. Every time a new server pops up, hundreds of people flee P99 with hopes of the new thing being a cure to exactly one problem: the clogged and monopolized endgame. It's only because no alternative of reasonable quality has ever presented itself that P99 still sees numbers in the high hundreds.

Think there's a bit more going on in the shadows than you've given credit too, but this was very well put.

I've always attributed the massive poopsocking to the fact that for a long time now certain guild(s) has been making some cash from this game. Probably the only way to immerse a nerd further into his lore of choosing is to pay him to do it.

You must also realize not everyone is as versed on the EQEmu culture as some. I've been around since the early days, I never kept the same name twice (minus Maybach on X99 servers -> Sleeper) because it's much easier to operate under the radar here. You won't have people coming after you/targeting you. How many years has TZT had "Where our fun comes from ruining yours" as its site slogan? And how many years has it's fucking retard fledglings gone server to server doing just that. There's just this deluded, evil-orgasmic feeling some people get knowing they're ruining something for you. As time progressed on the 99's, it started to become a practiced coming-of-age thing.

The server turned TMO into what it is. NEVER has an upper echelon guild gotten to the top and said "Hey, let's let other people have some of our raids" yet they are viewed like they're the only guild in MMO history with this mentality (shitty "hey look we're good guys" Trak handouts are far from what I'm getting at). I remember scrub guilds training their Planar raids years ago, just because they couldn't raid for their own reasons. They still harbor scumbags, cheaters, confirmed exploiters and RMT'rs, I'm not giving them a shred of credit for their accomplishments - they kinda negated that from themselves long ago.

As truthful as your post may be, this is just a server that hosts pixels. What happens further beyond that was completely in the hands of the people who connected to said server, and now we have this.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess my point was eq was a greater time sink. Yes you could spend 10 hours in aq40, but at what point are you just banging your head against the wall? The content was not designed to take that long. I've spent 15+ hours in VT in one session. No we wernt raping the zone...but the raid was meant to take foooooorrrrrreeeeevvvvveeeeerrrrrr. Ssra was my fav zone of cats on the moon.

We pushed content in tbc, but other then that i was able to look up strats for later content.

It wasn't designed to do it all in one sitting (could take your time and come back to finish it another day), I think that is what you're getting at.

MC, BWL, AQ40 and Naxx would all take quite a long time clearing in one sitting unless your guild had them on easy mode farm status (not sure many guilds got AQ40 to that status and even less for Naxx). Even then there was trouble mob/s that could wipe your shit in bwl, aq40 and naxx if you had slackers.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Nune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The server turned TMO into what it is. NEVER has an upper echelon guild gotten to the top and said "Hey, let's let other people have some of our raids" yet they are viewed like they're the only guild in MMO history with this mentality (shitty "hey look we're good guys" Trak handouts are far from what I'm getting at). I remember scrub guilds training their Planar raids years ago, just because they couldn't raid for their own reasons. They still harbor scumbags, cheaters, confirmed exploiters and RMT'rs, I'm not giving them a shred of credit for their accomplishments - they kinda negated that from themselves long ago.

As truthful as your post may be, this is just a server that hosts pixels. What happens further beyond that was completely in the hands of the people who connected to said server, and now we have this.

This is true. When I joined TMO, they were nothing like they are now really. It's not for good reason either, like the quote above, TMO didn't really get welcomed warmly. I am sure even Harrison can/will attest to this.

I'd say that the mobs TMO gave up where legitimate at being sincere and trying to let the server have access to raid targets. I know there are people in TMO who are "good guys" and did/helped push those just to be nice. Yet, the people of P99 are such douchebags that they cried, bitched, moaned, complained, etc until TMO just said fuck it.

A great deal of TMOs raiding style and tactics are/was pulled from/learned from IB and DA, then expanded on. There are a few things TMO pioneered, but for the most part the tactics were ones used by IB/DA.

P99 100% made TMO what it is now and I always laugh when I see people cry about every little thing they do/don't do.